Andy

mv Honfleur - A new ship for Brittany Ferries - Arriving 2019

386 posts in this topic

On 7/12/2017 at 17:25, hf_uk said:

Does anyone know the price BF are paying yet?

We know the bargain price which Irish Ferries got from Flensburger for their newbuild.
And this article suggests increadible value for the size and class of ship for Viking.

Just be interested to see if there is any relationship at all with tonnage and cost.

She will be the smallest of the I have just mentioned, but I doubt very much the cost will be lower than Irish Ferries!

I read in the media £175M or thereabouts for Honfleur. I would love to know how on earth it can be that much.

Viking are paying 190 Million Euros for their new ship - significantly bigger than Honfleur, also LNG, with many new innovations such as the 'sails' - but she if being built in China, fair enough.

But Irish Ferries are paying 144 Million Euros for their new vessel, similar but again bigger than Honfleur, in the SAME shipyard.

Does it not seem that BF are being ripped off somewhat? Or are they deliberately shooting themselves in the foot by not going further afield for a lower price? (some may say in the same way as not employing non-French crew, but that is another story, and part of the BFs experience and heritage).... ?

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That £175m does I think include an 80€m subsidy from the French government to promote cleaner fuel use so that drops the cash price somewhat. Ed 

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12 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

That £175m does I think include an 80€m subsidy from the French government to promote cleaner fuel use so that drops the cash price somewhat. Ed 

Surely doesn't not does?

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See Jonno's post from 20 June. The total price seems to be around 200€m or £175m (or somewhere in between) and 80€m of that is being provided by the government. Therefore BF only need to pay the balance - say 120€m -  so are getting a very good price. (They could presumably sell her to Stena the very next day and make a profit,  or swap her for two of the Chinese built ships we've been hearing about.) Ed.  

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47 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

See Jonno's post from 20 June. The total price seems to be around 200€m or £175m (or somewhere in between) and 80€m of that is being provided by the government. Therefore BF only need to pay the balance - say 120€m -  so are getting a very good price. (They could presumably sell her to Stena the very next day and make a profit,  or swap her for two of the Chinese built ships we've been hearing about.) Ed.  

I understand, but that does not explain the actual cost of the ship, regardless of what stakeholders or other help they are getting.

the cost is 200M Euros then. Why, is the larger Irish Ferry, 56M Euros cheaper, from the same yard!?

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It must surely be partly due to the cost of using this type of fuel,  both in terms of the engines installed and the relatively complex way of getting that fuel on board. The Irish ferry may well be based on an existing design so that would reduce the costs too. Others on here may have other ideas to add to (or correct) mine. Ed. 

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52 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

I understand, but that does not explain the actual cost of the ship, regardless of what stakeholders or other help they are getting.

the cost is 200M Euros then. Why, is the larger Irish Ferry, 56M Euros cheaper, from the same yard!?

Interesting - thanks Cabin-boy. Even so, that does seem a lot, its almost 40% more than the Irish ship.

Am I correct in thinking the Irish sea is out of the zone which requires the lower emissions levels currently, but it will be inside of it within a few years?

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33 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

Interesting - thanks Cabin-boy. Even so, that does seem a lot, its almost 40% more than the Irish ship.

Am I correct in thinking the Irish sea is out of the zone which requires the lower emissions levels currently, but it will be inside of it within a few years?

I'd argue that BF spend a good deal more on their passenger spaces than many of the other carriers, less plastics more wood, veneers & glass. It's what's made them stand out.

There's no timetable for the Irish Sea to be included in the strict MARPOL ECA Annex VI ruling which means sulphur content in fuel can be no more than 0.10% however a global cap of 0.50% comes into force in January 2020. This see's a reduction from the current 3.50% allowed on the Irish Sea and the west coast of France.

In effect in 2020 only ultra low sulphur diesel can be burned to power ships conventionally which Bretagne burns now and doesn't require the huge wash scrubbers we see on the Pont etc, an industry standard DPF brings emissions down to virtually zero and these can be installed in the stack casing as part of the exhaust fitting.

On the subject of the above mentioned E-Flexer's Stena are building, I wonder if any of the ports BF serve have a berth capable of of docking a 215m vessel... The two which are also supposedly earmarked for Liverpool too won't fit on Twelve Quays floating linkspans, the Visentini's berthing there now are borderline at 186m and Peel haven't even hinted at lengthening them, the port manager certainly has no knowledge of any future works planned and there's a bit more to it than just plonking in a couple of dolphins or outriggers especially on a river with such a tidal rise and fall, the second largest in the UK, it's fast too, it's the reason why they want to build a power generating barrage across it.

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Very interesting, Thanks Jonno.

So I know that Plymouth can take about 205m, using their extended 'monopole' for a rope. So presumably 215m would be ok, as it would only require the use of the same pole, with a rope sticking her bow/stern out slightly more into the channel. I doubt anything new will ever come to Plymouth in the near future though!

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On 17/07/2017 at 15:46, jonno said:

 

On the subject of the above mentioned E-Flexer's Stena are building, I wonder if any of the ports BF serve have a berth capable of of docking a 215m vessel... The two which are also supposedly earmarked for Liverpool too won't fit on Twelve Quays floating linkspans, the Visentini's berthing there now are borderline at 186m and Peel haven't even hinted at lengthening them, the port manager certainly has no knowledge of any future works planned and there's a bit more to it than just plonking in a couple of dolphins or outriggers especially on a river with such a tidal rise and fall, the second largest in the UK, it's fast too, it's the reason why they want to build a power generating barrage across it.

 

The 12 Quays berths are difficult and odd but the bigger issue is that the new ships need double deck loading to have any chance of meeting turnarounds.

Plans are afoot to do this on the 12 Quays South berth (no idea how) and Belfast's VT2.

Though you hear this one week and more random things the next but the clock is ticking away with little over 2 years before the first ship is due.

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10 hours ago, RickOShea said:

 

The 12 Quays berths are difficult and odd but the bigger issue is that the new ships need double deck loading to have any chance of meeting turnarounds.

Plans are afoot to do this on the 12 Quays South berth (no idea how) and Belfast's VT2.

Though you hear this one week and more random things the next but the clock is ticking away with little over 2 years before the first ship is due.

After a further chat I've learnt that It was mentioned last year that Peel had looked at relocating Stena as part of their Liverpool Waters expansion, in a similar way to how the IOM Steam Packet are to get a purpose built facility in Waterloo/Princes Half Tide Dock. This was as non starter as during a consultation it was found that one of the advantages and subsequent popularity of the Twelve Quays location is the proximity of the M53 and it's direct links to the M56 & beyond.

Speaking to a couple of friends who work in Egerton House next to 12 Quays, they've been led to believe Stena are looking at utilising land adjacent to the Alfred Dock entrance to build two twin loading linkspans and dismantle the floating platform but again neither Peel nor MDHC have seen any initial plans and as you say, the clock is ticking.

Portsmouth's 2012 Berth 2 expansion allows RoPax up to 240m to dock.

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