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Cabin-boy

Cabins for Passengers with Restricted Mobility

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1 hour ago, cvabishop said:

But when you reach the age that an upper berth is too hazardous due to infirmity what then?

I have to say that if a passenger's mobility is too limited to allow access to an upper bunk then that person should probably be in a handicapped cabin, not to stigmatise the person but so that the BF crew can provide the appropriate assistance in the event of an emergency or evacuation. Ed

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Woah - steady there Ed.  I think you may find that many consider that offensive.

For what it’s worth, I profoundly disagree.  Very many people will consider themselves of an age where bunks are no longer for them but who fall a long way short of needing disabled facilities.  Nothing wrong with them sleeping on a ground level bed in a normal cabin.

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But the disabled facilities aren't really any different except for the fact that both bunks are on the lower level and the cabin may be slightly wider to allow wheelchair access. They would be perfectly suited to those with limited movement or unable to climb into an upper bunk. Ed 

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That’s a very different point from your previous one.  Just because they may be suitable doesn’t mean that other cabins are not and doesn’t mean they should be compelled to use one.

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Maybe not, but it allows the correct people to be accommodated in the correct cabins and free up berth space for others. I still maintain that if you can't climb up into a top bunk then you will have difficulty climbing down into a life raft should the need arise, and BF are better off knowing that before an emergency arrises and therefore able to deploy the appropriate resources in the event of an evacuation to help those who may really need it. Ed

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2 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Maybe not, but it allows the correct people to be accommodated in the correct cabins and free up berth space for others. I still maintain that if you can't climb up into a top bunk then you will have difficulty climbing down into a life raft should the need arise, and BF are better off knowing that before an emergency arrises and therefore able to deploy the appropriate resources in the event of an evacuation to help those who may really need it. Ed

Ed... not that I'm trying to start BFE dating you understand?

I'm 6ft 2, wear 58 inch T shirts, built like a rugby prop and weigh 21 stone, I'm also very light on my feet. My problem is the gap between the upper bunk and the ceiling, there's just enough clearance for my bod...

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7 minutes ago, jonno said:

Ed... not that I'm trying to start BFE dating you understand?

I'm 6ft 2, wear 58 inch T shirts, built like a rugby prop and weigh 21 stone, I'm also very light on my feet. My problem is the gap between the upper bunk and the ceiling, there's just enough clearance for my bod...

Well, you could swap with the person below you! Unless of course Mrs Jonno is Yorkshire's only professional woman sumo-wrestler. :$Ed

Edited by Cabin-boy

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I think there’s a difference between not liking and finding it awkward to get into a top bunk and having mobility impairments that stop you doing it if money was no object I would always get a 4 berth as it’s such a pain to get up and down from a top bunk especially after a few glasses of wine. 

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24 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Well, you could swap with the person below you! Unless of course Mrs Jonno is Yorkshire's only professional woman sumo-wrestler. :$Ed

I know what you're saying but I've always found it beyond the realms of physics how someone who's a foot shorter than me can take up so much space... I'm also a husband which translates into-I listen for my name and do as I'm told... According to lady Dr Jonno, It's good for me!

 

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Ed, I am really sorry to tell you that you are talking absolute rubbish and I say that in the kindest possible way. I am 70 in April, my wife a year or so younger, we get around OK, we are NOT disabled. But it is unfortunately a fact that as you get older you tend to become less agile and if you do fall and do some damage then it takes a lot longer to recover than for a younger person. Other systems don't work as they used to either so needing to use the facilities sometime during the night is pretty normal and if the ship is lurching about in a heavy swell then believe me it is not much fun entrusting yourself to a rickety ladder which is basically just resting on the side of the bunk. Why take silly risks when you don't need to?

When I was your age (judging from your posts) I was quite happy to get up on the gently sloping roof of my house, lie flat and paint the bargeboard leaning over the edge. Could I do so now - no way! Believe me, you will reach my situation far more quickly than you would believe possible as the years go by increasingly faster. And you would not believe the sheer number of things that can possibly affect your health either - I know, I was you once!

You remind me of a conference I once attended back in the 80s about the introduction of new technology when a bright young thing from BT was confidently predicting a wonderful future when everything would be done over the phone or by voice recognition, it was all going beautifully when somebody in the audience asked how the deaf and hard of hearing would be able to cope. He was totally flummoxed, it simply hadn't occured to him.

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I can just imagine the outcry if BF said to loyal couple customers sorry you can’t have a TV,kettle or mini bar on your sailing to Spain as there are only 2 of you , it’s a bit far fetched to be honest.

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Ed I am a fairly fit 60 year old and I'm starting to find it hard climbing out of the top bunk, it is normally climbing out that's harder.  The cabins are sold as 4 berth or large 2 berth.

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Colin, I wasn't suggesting that your age and difficulty in climbing into upper bunks is a disability. What I am suggesting is that you be offered a cabin which is more adapted to your needs (in the same way that a couple with a baby in a cot might need more space but both prefer to be on the same level) and thereby freeing up space in 4-berth cabins for larger groups of people. 

I fully accept that it is a free market and it's first come first served. But if that means people are deciding not to book a trip because there is no more accommodation available (despite there being plenty of car space) then BF are sailing under capacity. This is unlikely to be a problem out of season but in the summer months it seems illogical. The only way around it would be for the price of cabins to vary depending on the size of the party. The software would be required to increase the price of a 4-berth if the booking is only for 2 people. That way you could dissuade people from being greedy (for want of a better word), satisfy a greater number of passengers overall and still allow people to upgrade once on board if they expressed a desire for a bigger cabin at the time of booking (and some are still available) but at the same higher price they would have originally paid. Ed. 

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No Ed, I’m afraid that was not what you were saying.  Your post that triggered this sub-discussion stated that you thought anyone who cannot climb to the top bunk should be required to use a disabled cabin.  Your reasoning was nothing to do with freeing up the facilities for others, it was so that BF crew would know who they were in the event of a need to evacuate the ship.

As Colin said, I disagree with you on this one with the greatest respect.

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13 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

I can just imagine the outcry if BF said to loyal couple customers sorry you can’t have a TV,kettle or mini bar on your sailing to Spain as there are only 2 of you , it’s a bit far fetched to be honest.

You can have whatever you want if you are prepared to pay for it (see above). Or they could simply equip more cabins with such facilities for a relatively low outlay. But then there will be nobody in the bar or self-service. Ed. 

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Yes, getting in is easier, getting out needs rather more agility especially with the low deckhead clearance. Easy to knock the ladder sideways.

As said in an earlier post, you can't compare it with abandoning ship in which circumstances all bets are off. We always book a 4 berth for the two of us these days. Likewise we use hotels and don't go camping! Its about enjoyable holidays and as you get older, home comforts become more welcome. Some people boast of driving 8 hours on the trot down to the South of France, well, good luck to them (and to the others on the roads!). We prefer to stop over and enjoy the ride.

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4 minutes ago, Gareth said:

anyone who cannot climb to the top bunk should be required to use a disabled cabin

Not required, but encouraged to do so for the comfort and safety of all on board. Nobody should have to sleep on the floor if beds are still available, unless BF is prepared to offer a discount to those who are unable to book early enough to secure cabin accommodation.

Disabled cabins are not equipped with hoists and winches like those in care homes, they are just more spacious and with more grab-handles to facilitate problem-free access during rough conditions. Ed

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Well correct me if I am wrong Ed but I am not aware that BF have lots of two berth cabins with no upper bunks. Just a relatively few expensive Commodores I believe. These days older couples do make up a significant proportion of the passenger load. Four berths are more suitable for parants and two children which is what we used to book and that was fine at the time.

Times change and people expect higher standards. If you book a cruise you expect proper beds as a matter of course. Given that many of the BF ships are getting on a bit then two lower berths in a 4 berth cabin is their market response to that.

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Just now, Cabin-boy said:

Not required, but encouraged to do so for the comfort and safety of all on board. Nobody should have to sleep on the floor if beds are still available, unless BF is prepared to offer a discount to those who are unable to book early enough to secure cabin accommodation.

Disabled cabins are not equipped with hoists and winches like those in care homes, they are just more spacious and with more grab-handles to facilitate problem-free access during rough conditions. Ed

Ed, the bathrooms are also converted into wet rooms with the doorways having no sill plates to allow wheelchair access plus drop down seats for showering etc. I think they're designed for those with disabilities rather than those who are a bit less mobile who may just require a car deck space closer to the lift.

 

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4 minutes ago, Gareth said:

But disabled facilities are there for the disabled.....

Agreed, so maybe a new class of cabin is required that is accessible for those with real handicaps as well as those with mobility issues. 

If you take this definition of disabled (below) then you can apply age - related conditions when deciding which cabin to allocate as they may well restrict mobility. 

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/disabled&ved=2ahUKEwirgcC-itPYAhXHKOwKHWt9BNYQFjAFegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw1E4F_ij2TiaC603O0Tjk2O&ampcf=1

As stated at the bottom of the definition, perhaps the term 'accessible' would be more appropriate in the same way that supermarkets offer ''more accessible parking spaces'. It may be something that BF will address with Honfleur, particularly if they also redesign the garage due to the difficulty people have squeezing out of their bigger vehicles. If enough people express a need for such facilities then it will help shape the vessels of the future. If they don't, and people under-occupy cabins, then prices will continue to rise for everyone. Ed. 

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1 minute ago, Cabin-boy said:

Agreed, so maybe a new class of cabin is required that is accessible for those with real handicaps as well as those with mobility issues. 

If you take this definition of disabled (below) then you can apply age - related conditions when deciding which cabin to allocate as they may well restrict mobility. 

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/disabled&ved=2ahUKEwirgcC-itPYAhXHKOwKHWt9BNYQFjAFegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw1E4F_ij2TiaC603O0Tjk2O&ampcf=1

As stated at the bottom of the definition, perhaps the term 'accessible' would be more appropriate in the same way that supermarkets offer ''more accessible parking spaces'. It may be something that BF will address with Honfleur, particularly if they also redesign the garage due to the difficulty people have squeezing out of their bigger vehicles. If enough people express a need for such facilities then it will help shape the vessels of the future. If they don't, and people under-occupy cabins, then prices will continue to rise for everyone. Ed. 

But Ed BF don't care if they're under occupied, they'll get £31 for a big day cabin on Normandie tomorrow afternoon whether there's one or four people using it. They flog the cabin not the bed space plus her wheelchair 2 berth outsides have bunks.

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Basically upper bunks are outdated in this day and age so new ships should not include them or perhaps just a proportion of the accommodation. This is what has happened in the cruise industry where two beds are taken as normal with sometimes an upper bunk or two  in a small proportion of cabins to accommodate families.

Obviously BF cannot retrofit their existing fleet so selling original 4 berths as enlarged more civilised two berths is their response to public demand for improved standards.  It may effectively reduce overnight accommodation capacity but that is the trade off. I suspect that the passenger profile has changed over the years so it actually doesn't make much difference. Interestingly, over the last few years I have found that the two berth cabins tend to sell out before the 4 berths which are marketed as either as 4 berth or large 2 berths. Never had a problem in getting an inside 4 berth although we don't travel at peak periods.

Also, bear in mind that us pensioners will do anything to avoid travelling during the school holiday periods and if we do we will often select the less crowded mid week crossings so in reality there may not be a problem here.

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7 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Basically upper bunks are outdated in this day and age so new ships should not include them or perhaps just a proportion of the accommodation. This is what has happened in the cruise industry where two beds are taken as normal with sometimes an upper bunk or two  in a small proportion of cabins to accommodate families.

Obviously BF cannot retrofit their existing fleet so selling original 4 berths as enlarged more civilised two berths is their response to public demand for improved standards.  It may effectively reduce overnight accommodation capacity but that is the trade off. I suspect that the passenger profile has changed over the years so it actually doesn't make much difference. Interestingly, over the last few years I have found that the two berth cabins tend to sell out before the 4 berths which are marketed as either as 4 berth or large 2 berths. Never had a problem in getting an inside 4 berth although we don't travel at peak periods.

Also, bear in mind that us pensioners will do anything to avoid travelling during the school holiday periods and if we do we will often select the less crowded mid week crossings so in reality there may not be a problem here.

I think that's a very fair overview.  At 66 I want a little comfort, so the 2-4 berth option is good for us.  The much younger, smaller and fitter Mrs N doesn't like top bunks either!

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