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Andy

NEWBUILD: Announcement in 2016?

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Plans are already being made for departure of the Pont Aven around midday from St Malo. This was part of the whole new package.

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Plans are already being made for departure of the Pont Aven around midday from St Malo. This was part of the whole new package.

Do you expect the new build will have much the same timetable as the Pont has now? Same cruising speed?

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The new build was not planned to have the same higher top speed as the Pont Aven. It seems that the idea of shortening the crossing time to Spain went out of favour.

 

Dredging work is planned in St Malo to allow PA easier access at all states of tide.

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The new build was not planned to have the same higher top speed as the Pont Aven. It seems that the idea of shortening the crossing time to Spain went out of favour.

 

Dredging work is planned in St Malo to allow PA easier access at all states of tide.

 

Would it involve blasting of rocks like they did in the 70s-80s?

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With reference to top speed.

There was an article in a Motoring Mag?? about the Amphicar which stated that it had a top speed, in water, of 7kn. It provoked a comment this was not possible because the top speed of a vessel is related to the water-line length of the vessel and quoted a formula. This meant that the top speed of an Amphicar would be 4kn, which is what I have seen quoted elsewhere. Is the statement about the relation between length and top speed true ? Someone on here must have some information about this.

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It is possible to exceed the 'hull speed' which is what you are referring to but a lot of extra power is required. A moving hull pushes water in front of it creating a 'hump' and the ship has to be 'pushed' over it to exceed the highest economical speed. That is why with small fast displacement vessels such as warships, the power required goes up exponentially and you may need to double the horsepower to gain an extra 5 knots or so.

 

A lot of the old intermediate size liners used to be known as 20/20 ships as 20 knots was the optimum speed for a 20,000 tonner. These days around 23 knots seems to be a common maximum service speed and applies to many cruise ships although they often go much slower in practice to suit their schedule.

 

Pont Aven was designed for 27 knots but it is still expensive to drive her at that speed. Cap Finistere is another 'Superfast' ship, her hull is long and thin to maximise hull speed before extra power is needed to take her to her top speed.

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It is possible to exceed the 'hull speed' which is what you are referring to but a lot of extra power is required. A moving hull pushes water in front of it creating a 'hump' and the ship has to be 'pushed' over it to exceed the highest economical speed. That is why with small fast displacement vessels such as warships, the power required goes up exponentially and you may need to double the horsepower to gain an extra 5 knots or so.

 

A lot of the old intermediate size liners used to be known as 20/20 ships as 20 knots was the optimum speed for a 20,000 tonner. These days around 23 knots seems to be a common maximum service speed and applies to many cruise ships although they often go much slower in practice to suit their schedule.

 

Pont Aven was designed for 27 knots but it is still expensive to drive her at that speed. Cap Finistere is another 'Superfast' ship, her hull is long and thin to maximise hull speed before extra power is needed to take her to her top speed.

 

Hence the reason why I'm surprised BF will shorten the crossing time, losing revenue. PA uses around 350g per kWh and that's just two of her four engines burning HFO travelling at 22kts @ 500rpm.

 

For the sake of 2/3 hours travelling time, probably just 2, it's very possibly not worth it on a 172nm journey. Her MAK engines have been designed with an LNG conversion in mind. If BF were to do that, saving around 40% fuel costs, then she could leave Portsmouth at 0500 and still be back for early evening.

 

I can't wait to experience a BF LNG newbuild, she will revolutionise ferry times to Spain.

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I can't wait to experience a BF LNG newbuild, she will revolutionise ferry times to Spain

 

I'm not quite sure why a LNG powered ship will be significantly faster than a conventionally powered one. I thought the argument was that LNG is a cleaner fuel and marginally cheaper than marine diesel. LNG cars don't go faster than petrol ones!

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The new build was not planned to have the same higher top speed as the Pont Aven. It seems that the idea of shortening the crossing time to Spain went out of favour.

 

What's the rationale behind that? There must be the fuel economy element but then again surely she won't be able to do as many rotations and I thought Spain was generally a high load factor area. Is there likelihood they're going to slow PA and CF down soon, will that mean two nights on board?

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PA was designed to run at 27 knots to cut the crossing times to Spain in the early 2000's, when only PLY-SAN was facing competition with P&O. However fuel prices cut these ambitions short and the PA has operated at a slower speed ever since. The new build will therefore not be as fast as PA's *top speed* but will most probably follow the same schedule as today.

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Running on heavy fuel oil all the ships have "efficient operating speeds", at which they burn the fuel cleanly. Running on 4 engines gives a higher speed than on 2 obviously, so you have 2 normal operating speeds. PA has higher operating speeds than Bretagne.

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PA was designed to run at 27 knots to cut the crossing times to Spain in the early 2000's, when only PLY-SAN was facing competition with P&O. However fuel prices cut these ambitions short and the PA has operated at a slower speed ever since. The new build will therefore not be as fast as PA's *top speed* but will most probably follow the same schedule as today.

 

 

When doing the Plymouth run to Santander she still manages about just over 25 knots for a lot of the trip, and it's quite spectacular being relatively low on the back of deck 5 seeing the wake from such a large vessel at that speed.... especially at night.

 

I heard that the Armoriques engines are amazingly efficient. She only has two main engines but in sea trials managed well over 28 knots.

Edited by hf_uk

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I'm not quite sure why a LNG powered ship will be significantly faster than a conventionally powered one. I thought the argument was that LNG is a cleaner fuel and marginally cheaper than marine diesel. LNG cars don't go faster than petrol ones!

 

40% cheaper fuel costs would give BF the option of increasing speed over longer periods of the crossing. Even a 10% increase would shorten crossing times leaving a 30% cost saving in fuel.

 

Also maintenance is less due to the fuel being cleaner.

 

 

Edited by jonno

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With Seashore illustrating well how busy European yards are into the 2020's, I see the Chinese are building another LNG powered RoPax. With their struggling stock exchange, now maybe a good time to negotiate?

 

http://www.cruiseandferry.net/articles/rederi-ab-gotland-orders-second-lng-ro-pax-ferry#.VZ41RGfbK00

 

 

Personally I think that looks dog ugly.

 

However it may be better in reality. The original Pegasis designs were hardly a picture to behold, but I would hope that would be partly attributed to the fact they must have spent a whole £10 on the design software for those images.

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Have you looked at the first post in this thread? Bf are saying they will place an order in 2016.

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Today's Ouest France quotes a German source suggesting a contract has just been signed for a new ship with STX. Neither STX nor BF would comment apparently.

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As quoted by Colin, Ouest-France is usually a reliable source. Don't forget they own the weekly newspaper Le Marin so their sources are probably trustworthy.

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