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Andy

DFDS SEAWAYS: To continue Newhaven/Dieppe route

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I am not surprised too. Eurotunnel challenged the contract with DFDS for Dieppe-Newhaven. DFDS challenged Eurotunnel on MyFerryLink.

 

Would BF be interested in tendering for the contract?

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As posted previously, these ships regularly run full of freight and up to their passenger ticket in the season... yet still need a subsidy to operate... They are about as big as can fit in Newhaven. Even if the ships became available, would there be anywhere else on the channel that could make them profitable?

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It appears that the Seine-Maritime regional council, which owns the Transmanche ships, has lost a court ruling relating to the subsidy that it affords the operator of the route.

 

http://www.paris-normandie.fr/detail_article/articles/5170234/transmanche-dieppe-newhaven--copie-a-revoir#.Vs3P-YHjLqA

 

I am sure some how DFDS will find their way back there, even if they buy diffrent ships and go solo.

 

Does this mean the service stops right away, or not. Also will it be coming back with a new contract?

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Brittany Ferries could take the opportunity to use one of two ships(COTE D'ALBATRE for exemple) on a service Le Havre (11:45 pm)> Newhaven (5:30 am) - Newhaven (7:00 an)> Dieppe (12:00am) / Dieppe (1:30 p.m.)> Newhaven (4:30 pm) - Newhaven (6:00 pm )> Le Havre (10:30 pm).

 

The Night Ferry Le Havre > Newhaven could complete Portsmouth > Le Havre night crossing and maintaining one cross daily to Dieppe.

 

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Translation (emphases emboldened by me):

 

The decision fell late January but has been notified to the interested parties that a few days ago. In its judgment of 28 January, the administrative Court of Douai, if it confirms that the Syndicat mixte's promotion of cross-border activity (SMPAT), the armed wing of the departmental Council of the Seine-Maritime for the Dieppe-Newhaven link, is well qualified to operate the maritime line, she asks him to put an end to the current public service Delegation contract (DSP). A contract which has been extended for two years with the operator DFDS and runs until December 31, 2017.

The contract with DFDS will be terminated

It is a judgment that is worn. The departmental Council speaks rather of new opportunity. In any case, this evolution is the result of a long legal battle. Since 2010, believing that weapons of competition are not equivalent and fair, the Eurotunnel company wanted to break this DSP by justice. In July 2013, the administrative tribunal of Rouen had reinforced the Transmanche link as it is organized by the SMAPT but Eurotunnel had appealed this decision to the competent jurisdiction, at Douai. All Eurotunnel's arguments had been rejected by the Court, "except one", says Pascal Martin, the president of Seine-Maritime, who readily says that the folder is "complex and difficult" and that it intends to treat it "seamlessly".

For the Court, "due to review annually the amount of public compensation limited the risk taken by the operator in the operation of the line and, as such, the public service delegation contract should be requalified turned public. According to justice, the contract dating back to 2006 is therefore not suitable.

In clear, what does this mean? Within a period of six months, subject to a "transactional negotiation" where the amount is not determined, the syndicat mixte has the obligation to terminate the current contract of Delegation of public service signed with the shipping company, which operates the cross-channel line, DFDS. In parallel, the Union will launch a new procedure to assign the procurement of the cross-channel to a private operator by the end of July for implementation before the end of the summer. "There will be no disruption of service", provides Pascal Martin. A condition, however, that there are the candidates to take over the line.

The community, which can compensate for the deficit of the operation to the tune of EUR 20 million per year, will continue to finance the line. But in the form of a grant. It can also more easily "re-appropriate" the trade policy and the operation of transmanche link currently provided with two ships - the alabaster coast and Seven sisters - one a daily rotation in winter and three per day in the summer.

With regard to the financial of the Transmanche round, in which it is already the Department and the city of Dieppe, Pascal Martin hope well be able to include on the one hand the agglomeration community of Dieppe - he said have an agreement in principle by the president - and, on the other hand, the Normandy Region. "Hervé Morin had taken position by saying that the Region would not remain outside the Union. I'll take advantage of this development to apply again for these communities to achieve their positions," explains Pascal Martin.

 

Seems to me reading through all that that this is a specific swipe at DFDS. Seine Maritime can even carry on providing funding....just on a different arrangement, with a different company.

Edited by Gareth

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LH city, your timings would b a struggle as the single width linkspan at Newhaven constrains loading and unloading, the vessels are also constrained by spring tides at Newhaven.

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LH city, your timings would b a struggle as the single width linkspan at Newhaven constrains loading and unloading, the vessels are also constrained by spring tides at Newhaven.

 

I think the bigger problem is that both times these ships have been used to Le Havre they have been found wanting. In principle I always felt that, of all the strange routes that LD tried to invent when they were having their change-everything-around-as-fast-as-possible-before-anything-gets-a-chance-to-settle-down frenzy, Newhaven-Le Havre had the most potential. But I think the fundamental problem is that the economics of operating a ferry these days are incompatible with having a ferry that is capable of fitting into Newhaven.

 

The designers of CDA and 7S did a very clever job of coming up with a design that could fit the berth and swinging constraints at Newhaven, and get in and out of the port at most states of the tide. But if you designed a ferry for use on any other route, such as Portsmouth-Le Havre, it would not look anything like those sisters. Small passenger capacity, small freight capacity, no twin-level loading and very narrow loading through the bow (out of necessity at Newhaven). It's no surprise that it is possible for those ferries to sail full and yet still require a subsidy to be profitable. Hence the conclusion - a ferry designed for Newhaven today cannot be economical. And that's why I don't think BF will go anywhere near this.

 

The situation at Newhaven is scandalous really. We've all not pulled our punches on here about the competence of Weymouth town council in under-investing in Weymouth harbour, but the authorities at Newhaven really make Weymouth look like professionals. Location-wise, Newhaven has a lot going for it, and with proper investment could have been the base for a thriving network of ferry routes today. But the fact that Transmanche are having to work around a port infrastructure that includes the original linkspan from the 1960s, a passenger terminal that is a wasteland, and port constraints that cannot accommodate ferries of today's standards, is a disgrace and one can only admire the tenacity they have shown in trying to make it work. Dieppe showed the way a decade ago with its new port, and all the talk of regeneration at Newhaven is frankly 20 years too late. Until Newhaven gets its act together (and I fear that even if it does they might have missed the boat), all suggestion of viable ferry operations out of the port is pie in the sky.

Edited by Gareth

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The situation at Newhaven is scandalous really. We've all not pulled our punches on here about the competence of Weymouth town council in under-investing in Weymouth harbour, but the authorities at Newhaven really make Weymouth look like professionals. Location-wise, Newhaven has a lot going for it, and with proper investment could have been the base for a thriving network of ferry routes today. But the fact that Transmanche are having to work around a port infrastructure that includes the original linkspan from the 1960s, a passenger terminal that is a wasteland, and port constraints that cannot accommodate ferries of today's standards, is a disgrace and one can only admire the tenacity they have shown in trying to make it work. Dieppe showed the way a decade ago with its new port, and all the talk of regeneration at Newhaven is frankly 20 years too late. Until Newhaven gets its act together (and I fear that even if it does they might have missed the boat), all suggestion of viable ferry operations out of the port is pie in the sky.

 

Since 2001 Newhaven Port has been owned by the same organisation as the one that owns Transmanche.

 

 

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True, yes, thanks Timmy I'd forgotten that. I'm which case the lack of investment in Newhaven is now coming home to roost. Pity.

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Indeed but from an enthusiast point of view it's an interesting place just because it's so odd and a reminder of how things used to be done. You've got three stations all in sight on one another, the third of which is closed but not closed and gets a parliamentary train that you can't actually go on. Two terminal buildings, one integrated with the closed Marine station. The linkspan is so narrow Yokohama fenders are needed down aft to get the ship to line up properly.

 

I don't think the place has seen any real investment since BR/SNCF Sealink days. Dieppe gained a new port in 1994, I think Stena invested quite significantly in that project and the linkspan was designed with a HSS 900 or 700 in mind (hence the width). Newhaven however at the time was owned by Sea Containers who were still not happy with Stena after the hostile take over of Sealink British Ferries so not surprisingly they weren't particularly interested.

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DFDS have been awarded the contract to continue to operate the Newhaven/Dieppe route for a further 5 years from the 1st January 2018.

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2 hours ago, Andy said:

DFDS have been awarded the contract to continue to operate the Newhaven/Dieppe route for a further 5 years from the 1st January 2018.

Not surprising really!  The route seems to be doing rather well.  From the traffic results in "ShippaxInfo" in recent months the service does more business in all categories than any BF route except Portsmouth-Ouistreham.

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This is clearly good news although I had read recently that their numbers are down for the year like BFs. I can not now locate that article on the Web so they may have been provisional results. I'll keep hunting.

This article reveals that DFDS are hoping to get 26 million euros in subsidies in 2018 from various regional and local agencies to keep the service going. 

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/normandie/seine-maritime/dieppe/liaison-maritime-entre-dieppe-angleterre-maintenue-2018-1375789.amp&ved=0ahUKEwjXz7jvjujXAhUIM8AKHQC6CDk4ChAWCCgwAg&usg=AOvVaw1TsFz04923LllPjc3gYNdv&ampcf=1

Ed. 

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8 minutes ago, litecactus said:

Would a visentini fit in Newhaven? 

I was thinking that the route might be more economically viable if it were operated by one.

No it wouldn’t.  Not even close.

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On 07/10/2015 at 18:03, Gareth said:

Probably still will, yes, but that was posted before this new development.

Wow, didn't realise Newhaven was that small

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CDA and 7S are the longest ships Newhaven can accommodate.  Main issue is that the harbour is so narrow that this is the maximum length of ship that can turn round in the harbour.

CDA and 7S sometimes reverse out and turn round at sea, when conditions allow.  This is why Newhaven has always been a bow-in harbour.

A Visentini is not only too long to turn round, it is also a stern loader.  So without the ability to turn round it would have to reverse into the harbour from out at sea.  The entrance to Newhaven is tricky at the best of times, with it’s narrow entrance not much wider than the ship and with the shallow banks on the eastern side of the approach entirely unmarked.  To do it forwards, with normal control, is tricky enough; to try to go in astern would be nothing less than foolhardy.

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18 hours ago, litecactus said:

Would a visentini fit in Newhaven? 

I was thinking that the route might be more economically viable if it were operated by one.

The French owners of Newhaven port had plans to build a new ferry berth outside the present port on the east side of the entrance.  The idea was it would be on the east side of a pier projecting out into the Channel.  I daresay if built it could accommodate a Visentini but I don't know about Dieppe.  At 186.5m ol they are not small ships.  Unfortunately I believe the whole idea became bogged down in a dispute between the local authorities involved on both sides of the Channel.  The local MP in Sussex was going to mediate but I don't know what the present position is.   

This topic has been discussed at some length in these Forums some time ago.

 

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Yep, that’s a good point too HT.  They would also be far too long for Dieppe.  So, all in all, not the right fit for the Newhaven-Dieppe route at all.

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Good news about DFDS continuing to run the line for next 5 years.   These days Newhaven-Dieppe becomes the fall back route when BF become too stupidly expensive in the summer. 

Having a budget brand competitor on their doorstep for the foreseeable future might persuade BF to continue with the economie branding a while longer.

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We are current sitting on C d'A in Dieppe Harbour waiting for her to leave. Check-in was quite slow but they did open the boot of every vehicle, no matter what its size. We seem to be parked 6 cars back from the bow door so I'm hopeful of a quick exit the other end. Strangly there are a couple of passengers wandering around on board and the man has a black cocker spaniel under his arm. I guess they are looking for their cabin but I didn't know the vessel offered pet-friendly cabins and presumed that animals were supposed to stay in the cars. The vessel looks in better condition than the last time I sailed on her 2 years ago so they have clearly spent some cash on the decor and upholstery. Ed. 

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