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St Nazaire to Gijon

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It is beginning to feel like Deja vu last time I was able to sail Gijon to St Nazaire/Montoir it was aboard LD lines Norman Asturias then land bridge to Roscoff P.A. to Cork.  Next week I will book Connemara (formerly N.A.) Santander to Cork  to achieve the same objective but without miles of driving.  Hoping to get the last cabinstarboard side overlooking the car deck as before.  It’s huge just hope they have carpeted it then we should have a comfortable passage.

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4 hours ago, JohnMustow said:

It is beginning to feel like Deja vu last time I was able to sail Gijon to St Nazaire/Montoir it was aboard LD lines Norman Asturias then land bridge to Roscoff P.A. to Cork.  Next week I will book Connemara (formerly N.A.) Santander to Cork  to achieve the same objective but without miles of driving.  Hoping to get the last cabinstarboard side overlooking the car deck as before.  It’s huge just hope they have carpeted it then we should have a comfortable passage.

It's just the fact these services seem to parallel one another which makes me think BF have their suspicions as to what Balearia are up to and need to get in quick!

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11 hours ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

It's just the fact these services seem to parallel one another which makes me think BF have their suspicions as to what Balearia are up to and need to get in quick!

I don't really think Brittany Ferries have even taken that into consideration as no sign it is actually going to happen and as fuel prices continue to climb, it becomes less and less likely to happen.  There are some overlaps as some Irish traffic did use the France - Spain route (then English Channel and Irish Sea) but it's not going to be a make or break factor for either service.

The Balearia newbuilds are now not due until early and later next year which would further delay them doing anything,

Edited by RickOShea

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1 hour ago, RickOShea said:

I don't really think Brittany Ferries have even taken that into consideration as no sign it is actually going to happen and as fuel prices continue to climb, it becomes less and less likely to happen.  There are some overlaps as some Irish traffic did use the France - Spain route (then English Channel and Irish Sea) but it's not going to be a make or break factor for either service.

The Balearia newbuilds are now not due until early and later next year which would further delay them doing anything,

Surprised to learn the LNG Visentinis are not now due until next year.  I thought I'd read Balearia had gone to this yard for two vessels of established design because the shipowner wanted them in a hurry and that currently construction is well advanced, the orders having been placed early last year.

I'm not surprised Balearia may have doubts about the commercial viability of the Gijon-Montoir route.  Signior Emanuele Grimaldi (I think it was) was quoted as saying on behalf of his company they just didn't see it when partnering Louis Dreyfus Armateurs in the venture was a possibility.  Disappointing for the Port of Gijon, of course.

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7 minutes ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

Surprised to learn the LNG Visentinis are not now due until next year.  I thought I'd read Balearia had gone to this yard for two vessels of established design because the shipowner wanted them in a hurry and that currently construction is well advanced, the orders having been placed early last year.

 

There was an incident along the lines of a crane collapsing which appears to have disrupted the construction of these ships.

Some more information here if you are interested https://www.balearia.com/es/noticias/visentinisfitur2018a

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22 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

There was an incident along the lines of a crane collapsing which appears to have disrupted the construction of these ships.

Some more information here if you are interested https://www.balearia.com/es/noticias/visentinisfitur2018a

Thanks.  I've not seen any report of a collapsing crane.

Balearia don't seem to be having much luck with their newbuilds, do they? Hasn't the LaNaval yard at Bilbao which was supposed to be building a superferry to Balearia account gone bust?  I think it was reported in these Forums Balearia were having to look for an alternative yard.

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3 minutes ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

Thanks.  I've not seen any report of a collapsing crane.

Balearia don't seem to be having much luck with their newbuilds, do they? Hasn't the LaNaval yard at Bilbao which was supposed to be building a superferry to Balearia account gone bust?  I think it was reported in these Forums Balearia were having to look for an alternative yard.

We are getting rather off topic but you can see a video here of the collapsed crane.

The latest on the contract with LaNaval is that order is frozen pending talks on the future of the yard but it isn't cancelled. There is also an option of a second newbuild so this is very important to assisting with safe-guarding the future of the shipbuilder. http://www.deia.com/2018/01/24/economia/balearia-mantiene-el-contrato-del-ferri-con-la-naval-a-la-espera-del-concurso

 

 

 

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I suppose the obvious comment would be that if Balearia were fully convinced that reviving Gijon-Montoir or even the Atlantic Arc routes was a sound business proposition they would find the ships to do it.  They do have some Visentinis dating from 2002, for example, which could be converted to burn LNG apparently.  However while they have a policy of "internationalisation" one does wonder if they see better prospects for this in the Caribbean, for example, rather than with services from northern Spanish ports.  As I say all very disappointing for the Port of Gijon especially with the rival port of Santander to the east securing a direct service to Ireland.

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17 minutes ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

I suppose the obvious comment would be that if Balearia were fully convinced that reviving Gijon-Montoir or even the Atlantic Arc routes was a sound business proposition they would find the ships to do it.  They do have some Visentinis dating from 2002, for example, which could be converted to burn LNG apparently.  However while they have a policy of "internationalisation" one does wonder if they see better prospects for this in the Caribbean, for example, rather than with services from northern Spanish ports.  As I say all very disappointing for the Port of Gijon especially with the rival port of Santander to the east securing a direct service to Ireland.

Don't forget that Balearia's priority in the immediate term and beyond is what happens with Armas buying Trasmed.  That's their core market and where their efforts will be focussed.

As for Gijon, great port but a harder sell to hauliers already using ports like Santander and Bilbao.

Edited by RickOShea
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Before anyone gets too excited regarding news, I don't think this is but, what sparked my interest was the dates in the top left corner. i'm hoping a forum member may have an idea?

LD moved on is September 2014, the initial study date for this is 2015, revised in Sept 2016. I'm wondering what the Dec' '18 date signifies... end of the study or end of available funding?

 

fiche_2015-eu-tm-0375-m_final.pdf

Edited by jonno
Tried to add as image not PDF

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8 hours ago, jonno said:

Before anyone gets too excited regarding news, I don't think this is but, what sparked my interest was the dates in the top left corner. i'm hoping a forum member may have an idea?

LD moved on is September 2014, the initial study date for this is 2015, revised in Sept 2016. I'm wondering what the Dec' '18 date signifies... end of the study or end of available funding?

 

fiche_2015-eu-tm-0375-m_final.pdf

Difficult to say but one would think the expectation is the service will be resumed by this date.  I suppose if it isn't they'll have to start all over again, if that's possible. I actually thought the Port of Gijon had built a new ferry terminal complete with a new Ravestein linkspan so that part of the plan has been implemented I thought.  The problem seems to be persuading a ferry operator that there's a business opportunity here in re-establishing the Gijon-Montoir link or even the Atlantic Arc services with Gijon as their hub.

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Looking at the aerial view of Gijon on Google Earth, I can't actually see a linkspan. There is some sort of long jetty which looks like it could be used for loading but at the end it splits into two parts with a walkway (presumably for mooring purposes) extending down the middle which would mean any vessel having to load over one side of its stern ramp only. Then if you zoom right in to the marina area there is a dotted line showing a ferry connection to St Nazaire. But it seems to leave from the end of the breakwater! I don't know when the satellite image dates from but there is no sign of the port being able to host a ferry service for the moment or any clue as to where the previous service loaded. Ed 

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39 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Looking at the aerial view of Gijon on Google Earth, I can't actually see a linkspan. There is some sort of long jetty which looks like it could be used for loading but at the end it splits into two parts with a walkway (presumably for mooring purposes) extending down the middle which would mean any vessel having to load over one side of its stern ramp only. Then if you zoom right in to the marina area there is a dotted line showing a ferry connection to St Nazaire. But it seems to leave from the end of the breakwater! I don't know when the satellite image dates from but there is no sign of the port being able to host a ferry service for the moment or any clue as to where the previous service loaded. Ed 

It's on La Figar a stones throw from the curved red roofed building. The weirdly shaped structure to the right was the terminal building with the lanes set out in front of it.

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Think the lesson here is never to rely on Google Earth!

As for the timescales - I imagine that is a closing date for the current project.  

The whole thing is incredibly complex as there is all sorts of funding from different sources that needs signed off.

Meanwhile, oil prices creep up and up.

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Thanks Jonno, got it. There is the rusty, old linkspan and then, as Solo says, a new modern structure further along the quayside. Maybe that's what has been built in preparation for this new idea. Ed

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18 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Thanks Jonno, got it. There is the rusty, old linkspan and then, as Solo says, a new modern structure further along the quayside. Maybe that's what has been built in preparation for this new idea. Ed

Can somebody post a screen shot of this?

 

Just so we are all looking at the same thing.

Edited by RickOShea

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Another serious difficulty which has been pointed out by "ShippaxInfo" is that Gijon has had a reputation of being an expensive port to use.  One presumes they've done something about this because if they haven't I don't see them getting a ferry operator anytime soon to have a go at a route the commercial viability of which may be seen as questionable and where they have serious competitors in Santander and Bilbao.

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3 hours ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

Another serious difficulty which has been pointed out by "ShippaxInfo" is that Gijon has had a reputation of being an expensive port to use.  One presumes they've done something about this because if they haven't I don't see them getting a ferry operator anytime soon to have a go at a route the commercial viability of which may be seen as questionable and where they have serious competitors in Santander and Bilbao.

Port costs were an issue in the closure of the previous route.

Yes - that does look like a new linkspan.  The old one wasn't very versatile and required alterations to the Visentini stern doors to avoid obstacles.

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Balearia have confirmed that both of their new Visentini's will be deployed on their established mediterranean routes. I think this signals the end to any thoughts of them attempting to reopen Gijon with them.

I believe they've also bought I.F's HSC... Maybe RickOShea or Tarbyonline can clarify this?

Here's Balearia's new girls...

 

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6 hours ago, jonno said:

Balearia have confirmed that both of their new Visentini's will be deployed on their established mediterranean routes. I think this signals the end to any thoughts of them attempting to reopen Gijon with them.

I believe they've also bought I.F's HSC... Maybe RickOShea or Tarbyonline can clarify this?

Here's Balearia's new girls...

 

Curious then they went to Visentinis in the first place.  It was thought they wanted two ropax in a hurry.  Hence the yard and the design.  But this doesn't seem to have worked out.  However they do have other Visentinis they could use if they still see possibilities in the idea.

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8 hours ago, jonno said:

Balearia have confirmed that both of their new Visentini's will be deployed on their established mediterranean routes. I think this signals the end to any thoughts of them attempting to reopen Gijon with them.

I believe they've also bought I.F's HSC... Maybe RickOShea or Tarbyonline can clarify this?

 

Yes Balaeria have bought the Jonathan Swift http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/icg1/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=500&newsid=971844

There has been no further news on Balearia regarding re-opening the MoS route.  I am cynical how much was ever more than a discussion of the idea but with the Naviera Armas takeover of Trasmed the priority will be very much protecting the home markets.  Don't forget too that oil prices have risen a lot since this proposal was first floated.

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1 hour ago, RickOShea said:

Yes Balaeria have bought the Jonathan Swift http://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/icg1/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=500&newsid=971844

There has been no further news on Balearia regarding re-opening the MoS route.  I am cynical how much was ever more than a discussion of the idea but with the Naviera Armas takeover of Trasmed the priority will be very much protecting the home markets.  Don't forget too that oil prices have risen a lot since this proposal was first floated.

Thanks Rick. I wonder whether the collective "they" are waiting until the railway line is finished so it's compatible with the rest of Spain. The completion was planned for September 2018 but that's now been put back until the spring of 2019. I don't know whether the price of crude figured a great deal as the plan was to use an alternative such as LNG or Biomethanol.

I don't think it's dead in the water just yet and Gijon are continuing their expansion. It's probably just a little too early in Spanish/EU grand scheme of things which is still very much focused on Bilbao, Pasajes & Santander. 

One thing the Visentini's will give Spain in general and Balearia in particular is the ability to import and transport more goods from North Africa much of which will be transiting both Spain & France heading to the UK & Ireland.

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