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DFDS SEAWAYS: News & Updates

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1 hour ago, Nick Hyde said:

Was really looking forward to seeing the Moby ships on the Amsterdam route. Will any other new replacements, including e-flexers, really equal the potential wow factor the Moby ships would have brought? Those forward facing double level public rooms looked particularly impressive.

I still think there’s a decent chance you might see them there.

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Honestly, this is the best news that I have read for some time - I took a mini-cruise last week on the King thinking it would be the last time......I was enjoying walking around the decks and sitting at the stern watching the prop-wash and thinking what a shame that I would not be able to experience this in the future, the deck space on the Moby ships looked much more limited with far fewer places to shelter from cold breezes - I am probably in the minority but I see no reason to change the ships, they suit the route perfectly.

Andy

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31 minutes ago, ac_freeman said:

Honestly, this is the best news that I have read for some time - I took a mini-cruise last week on the King thinking it would be the last time......I was enjoying walking around the decks and sitting at the stern watching the prop-wash and thinking what a shame that I would not be able to experience this in the future, the deck space on the Moby ships looked much more limited with far fewer places to shelter from cold breezes

That's not really the case TBH, the Moby ships give over almost their entire top deck to passengers, more than half of it protected behind glass screening. The current ships have plenty too, but there's a lot of up and down walking to be done.

I think it's a shame this swap won't be happening, it was a win/win for both parties and I fear the eventual replacements, which will come, may not match either the incumbents or the Moby ships.

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5 hours ago, neilcvx said:

I suspect DFDS might be expecting Moby to go bust and get the ships at a bargain price.

I think part of the attraction for DFDS was that they also got to off load the two 30+ year old ships on the route currently. If Moby do go bust I imagine there would be stiff competition for the three youngest and most viable members of the fleet, Wonder, Aki & Tommy. The rest are into their 30's or 40's - Princess Anastasia being the youngest of the rest at 33. Moby Baby the oldest at 53!

DFDS must be kicking themselves as now they'll struggle to find tonnage of similar capacity at only 175m allowing them to berth at both Newcastle and Ijmuiden.

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51 minutes ago, hhvferry said:

That's not really the case TBH, the Moby ships give over almost their entire top deck to passengers, more than half of it protected behind glass screening. The current ships have plenty too, but there's a lot of up and down walking to be done.

I think it's a shame this swap won't be happening, it was a win/win for both parties and I fear the eventual replacements, which will come, may not match either the incumbents or the Moby ships.

Is there really no chance that it could still happen? Admittedly I'm not aware if all the details, but it sounds to me like DFDS are walking away now because of the uncertainty. But that does not mean that things might change in the coming months, and they could still acquire the vessels, albeit later than planned? 

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51 minutes ago, Ryan_H said:

Is there really no chance that it could still happen? Admittedly I'm not aware if all the details, but it sounds to me like DFDS are walking away now because of the uncertainty. But that does not mean that things might change in the coming months, and they could still acquire the vessels, albeit later than planned? 

Would they have the finances if they don't swap/sell the current twins though?

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1 hour ago, Ryan_H said:

Is there really no chance that it could still happen? Admittedly I'm not aware if all the details, but it sounds to me like DFDS are walking away now because of the uncertainty. But that does not mean that things might change in the coming months, and they could still acquire the vessels, albeit later than planned? 

Moby are close to screwed without this deal so there could be a fire sale in the end. They've got 45 ships or so excluding the tugs but the Nuraghes and Sharden are the group's most valuable assets alongside the Aki and Wonder. If they could shift a couple from the above or, next tier of value down, the Tommy, Bithia, Janas or Athara, V/Florio or R/Rubattino I imagine that would work best operationally and financially.

Edited by hhvferry

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On 29/10/2019 at 23:44, hhvferry said:

Moby are close to screwed without this deal so there could be a fire sale in the end. They've got 45 ships or so excluding the tugs but the Nuraghes and Sharden are the group's most valuable assets alongside the Aki and Wonder. If they could shift a couple from the above or, next tier of value down, the Tommy, Bithia, Janas or Athara, V/Florio or R/Rubattino I imagine that would work best operationally and financially.

I believe that for the Moby/Tirrenia-operations neither the Nuraghes and Sharden are very valuable assets. These ships are just way too big, running more than half empty most of the time, including freight decks. Not only did passenger and car figures to all three islands fell the last few years, a lot of new/old (ro)pax tonnage has been added to the region year after year for the last few decades, competition is fierce. Sometimes it seems companies here thought the best way to compete is by adding bigger and newer tonnage, without doing anything about their terrible onboard product. Moby was always an exception to this. I don't know how Moby did on improving Tirrenia's onboard services, which were abominable. I remember travelling Athara in summer season. The only dinner available was spagetti, the only breakfast a small croissant with an espresso, rude staff who apeared to tired to provide any serivce, no live music although there were several stages, empty shop, etc. Of course the competition often isn't very well either (the 'cruise' in 'cruiseferry' often only refers to the ships size), but I don't believe any of these companies make any additional revenue from onboard sales. But I'm getting of topic.

The sale falling through is a big shame for DFDS. I would have loved to see these ships coming up north, although I've always been a fan of both the King and the Princess as well. I was sure DFDS could turn these 'new' ships into a perfect pair with a wonderfull atmospere and product onboard. I was a bit dissapointed though that these ships were only upping the car and freight capacity, since I've experienced more than a few times that actually the passenger capacity was first to be full booked. The Moby duo had even a little less berths than the current pair. Maybe now they can snatch up some ships with additional cabins.

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On 29/10/2019 at 15:24, neilcvx said:

I suspect DFDS might be expecting Moby to go bust and get the ships at a bargain price.

Perhaps hedging their bets, and don't particularly want to be involved in any financial difficulties. Moby's financial difficulties have been suggested for a while now, but this claim is entirely conjecture and not based on facts. 

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34 minutes ago, MichaelBF said:

Perhaps hedging their bets, and don't particularly want to be involved in any financial difficulties. Moby's financial difficulties have been suggested for a while now, but this claim is entirely conjecture and not based on facts. 

If we Just stuck to facts on here it would be extremely boring imo 

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Looking across the Group, Ferries, Tugs, Port management etc, Moby aren't doing well.

CIN and Toremar still receive their subsidies which helps them specifically and Baltic business is very good due to the sums spent on board but overall their net debt is steadily increasing and long term liabilities are increasing. They have a fair bit of negative equity and they have zero net working capital.

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1 hour ago, Le Quiberon said:

Is there any other suitable tonnage out there that DFDS may go for? Any suggestions?

Not really, there'll be one or two of a similar vintage available next year to the two ships they already have but nothing built this century which will fit both ports.They need around 1500 berths, lounge, bars, restaurants & cafe's all squeezed into a max overall length of 180m at the extreme.

At 175m both Moby ships answered all their questions with a full superstructure allowing the space for a full refurb.

Personally I don't think the deal is completely dead yet, once Moby sort the mortgages out I think they'll be on their way as the deal suits both parties.

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5 minutes ago, jonno said:

Not really, there'll be one or two of a similar vintage available next year to the two ships they already have but nothing built this century which will fit both ports.They need around 1500 berths, lounge, bars, restaurants & cafe's all squeezed into a max overall length of 180m at the extreme.

At 175m both Moby ships answered all their questions with a full superstructure allowing the space for a full refurb.

Personally I don't think the deal is completely dead yet, once Moby sort the mortgages out I think they'll be on their way as the deal suits both parties.

Which of the two ports is restricted in length, IJmuiden or Tyne? Or both maybe? And is there no chance to extend this? Or is it because of the width of the river and the turning of the ships?

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

Not really, there'll be one or two of a similar vintage available next year to the two ships they already have but nothing built this century which will fit both ports.They need around 1500 berths, lounge, bars, restaurants & cafe's all squeezed into a max overall length of 180m at the extreme.

At 175m both Moby ships answered all their questions with a full superstructure allowing the space for a full refurb.

Personally I don't think the deal is completely dead yet, once Moby sort the mortgages out I think they'll be on their way as the deal suits both parties.

Presumably DFDS would want the new ships in service for next Summer, so unless something is agreed pretty quickly, I guess we're unlikely to see them (or any other new vessels) until this time next year at the earliest? 

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3 hours ago, sealynx2 said:

Which of the two ports is restricted in length, IJmuiden or Tyne? Or both maybe? And is there no chance to extend this? Or is it because of the width of the river and the turning of the ships?

Couple of reasons, firstly there are length restrictions at Tyne due to the 2nd linkspan, it's anchoring is already used to berth the Peter Pans, the Moby sisters will make it wholly unusable when in port plus PoT have expressed an interest in increasing the footprint on the quay for car carriers rather than extending anything for the ferries. The cruise berth is fine and turning isn't an issue for them as 300m long ships can visit. 

Secondly the anti collision area adjacent to Forteiland next to Ijmuiden harbour entrance is maxed out at 180m. From a navigation point of view, word is that visibility now dictates that the ferries turn prior to entering the dock rather than on departure... prior to this change it's rumoured that both VDL as was and Queen of Scandinavia (Moby Dada) had the odd near miss with vessels approaching or leaving the locking system.  

About 5 years ago there was talk about shifting the ferries across to Felison where the cruise ships berth but they felt that a bunkering tender would struggle to squeeze through if both sides of the dock were in use.

Edited by jonno

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2 hours ago, Ryan_H said:

Presumably DFDS would want the new ships in service for next Summer, so unless something is agreed pretty quickly, I guess we're unlikely to see them (or any other new vessels) until this time next year at the earliest? 

I think the timetable was for a refurbishment to last three months so maybe there's still scope to have them ready in time for Spring. Both are still moored up in Genoa.

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2 hours ago, Ryan_H said:

Are 'King & 'Princess' going for re-fit this year? 

Yes, well Princess is at least. Currently in Amsterdam shipyard, along with Spirit of Britain. 

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12 minutes ago, jujudu62100 said:

Côte des Dunes on annual refit this morning at Dunkerque 

We can see the maltese cross is gone , replaced by a '' DFDS '' 

 

IMG_4800.thumb.JPG.eaa2230e62def7baba1c218281b1eaad.JPGIMG_4805.thumb.JPG.dacb84ac0f05ff3b570d4da5a12d0355.JPG

 

 

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A shame in my opinion and loss of identity. Perhaps the Maltese Cross will return as did the DFDS Branding after they tried Scandinavian Seaways years ago.

Screenshot 2020-01-15 at 10.14.58.png

Screenshot 2020-01-15 at 10.14.32.png

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I agree, it seems a retrograde step, all for questionable reasons of getting their ‘brand’ better known; was the Maltese cross not already synonymous with DFDS?

Judging from what I saw on twitter though, it doesn’t look as though Princess or King have lost theirs...yet.

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