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wortley

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Common sense is not a legal answer to a democratic referendum - with a heads or tails vote the difference would always be close so how many referendums do you think you have to have?

Germany's last one was called by Hitler and then they banned them so maybe none would be a good idea or we could have them to decide everything every year from the price of the Daily Mail to ferry ticket prices.

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Common sense is not a legal answer to a democratic referendum - with a heads or tails vote the difference would always be close so how many referendums do you think you have to have?

Germany's last one was called by Hitler and then they banned them so maybe none would be a good idea or we could have them to decide everything every year from the price of the Daily Mail to ferry ticket prices.

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Germany's last one was called by Hitler and then they banned them so maybe none would be a good idea or we could have them to decide everything every year from the price of the Daily Mail to ferry ticket prices.

 

Those would be commercial corporate decisions by the companies themselves?

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Germany's last one was called by Hitler and then they banned them so maybe none would be a good idea or we could have them to decide everything every year from the price of the Daily Mail to ferry ticket prices.

 

Those would be commercial corporate decisions by the companies themselves?

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Those would be commercial corporate decisions by the companies themselves?

 

I think you are missing the point of what I'm getting at by a long way.

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Those would be commercial corporate decisions by the companies themselves?

 

I think you are missing the point of what I'm getting at by a long way.

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Just to add, far more people voted for Brexit than voted for the Governments that signed the Treaty of Rome, Mastricht & Lisbon.
Doesn't make an iota of difference to those whose Remainers whose lives will be made a whole lot worse. This is all mostly about immigration - end of, all that was needed was a PM who would stand up to EU stuff, Cameron poodled to Merkel and co. The pros and cons of staying, the pros far outweigh the cons - now we ALL have to clear up this mess.
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Just to add, far more people voted for Brexit than voted for the Governments that signed the Treaty of Rome, Mastricht & Lisbon.
Doesn't make an iota of difference to those whose Remainers whose lives will be made a whole lot worse. This is all mostly about immigration - end of, all that was needed was a PM who would stand up to EU stuff, Cameron poodled to Merkel and co. The pros and cons of staying, the pros far outweigh the cons - now we ALL have to clear up this mess.
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Given that all 5 candidates for the job of Prime Minister have stated in the Daily Telegraph that there will not be a re-run of the referendum I think those of you calling for another chance to vote are going to be disappointed. They will also maintain the date of 2020 for the next general election so there is no chance of Labour getting into power and organising a new referendum. Equally though they have all said that it's unlikely the UK will activate Article 50 before the end of the year, and possibly even later, giving them the chance to assess the impact of the US presidential election and tailor their negotiations accordingly. Europe made a mistake (creating problems for themselves) when they drew up Article 50 but not setting a time-scale for its activation following a national referendum, presumably as they never thought it would be required. They can not force the UK to activate it, nor sanction us if we do not do so rapidly, yet insist there can be no negotiation until we do. If they want to avoid stagnation within the zone, while waiting for us to make a move, something will have to give. Who will blink first? It will be them. My feeling is that it will be activated at the end of 2019 (before the next general election), following 3 years of discussions and negotiations to allow the UK to adopt the Norwegian style model of trade and partnership, and will simply be a seamless transition from the old system to the new and allows both parties to claim the process was a success. Other national elections, and possibly other referenda, will be held in the meantime and maybe some countries will begin the process themselves, inspired by our rational and considered approach to Brexit. Ed

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Given that all 5 candidates for the job of Prime Minister have stated in the Daily Telegraph that there will not be a re-run of the referendum I think those of you calling for another chance to vote are going to be disappointed. They will also maintain the date of 2020 for the next general election so there is no chance of Labour getting into power and organising a new referendum. Equally though they have all said that it's unlikely the UK will activate Article 50 before the end of the year, and possibly even later, giving them the chance to assess the impact of the US presidential election and tailor their negotiations accordingly. Europe made a mistake (creating problems for themselves) when they drew up Article 50 but not setting a time-scale for its activation following a national referendum, presumably as they never thought it would be required. They can not force the UK to activate it, nor sanction us if we do not do so rapidly, yet insist there can be no negotiation until we do. If they want to avoid stagnation within the zone, while waiting for us to make a move, something will have to give. Who will blink first? It will be them. My feeling is that it will be activated at the end of 2019 (before the next general election), following 3 years of discussions and negotiations to allow the UK to adopt the Norwegian style model of trade and partnership, and will simply be a seamless transition from the old system to the new and allows both parties to claim the process was a success. Other national elections, and possibly other referenda, will be held in the meantime and maybe some countries will begin the process themselves, inspired by our rational and considered approach to Brexit. Ed

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Spot on Ed, good post. As I've posted before, there could well have been a legitimate case for setting up the referendum so that a 60% majority either way was required, and I think maybe it should have been. But it was not. It was set up as it was and everyone seemed happy with that before the event. Well, there was no clamouring for a higher hurdle anyway. You cannot go round just re-writing the rules of a democratic vote after the event, the idea is preposterous.

 

Like many I was appalled and disconcerted by the obvious lack of any planning for this outcome, an outcome which was certainly within the realms of error in the polls, and for this lack of planning after calling his own referendum on the matter Cameron was breathtakingly negligent. But the noises coming out of the leadership campaign seem well considered and intelligently thought through to me. Good on Theresa May for ruling out an early election too - it might suit the Tories to try to exploit the chaos in the Labour Party at a time when they could not be more vulnerable to wipeout, but she is clearly putting national stability ahead of party interests and she sounds a very safe pair of hands for next PM.

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Spot on Ed, good post. As I've posted before, there could well have been a legitimate case for setting up the referendum so that a 60% majority either way was required, and I think maybe it should have been. But it was not. It was set up as it was and everyone seemed happy with that before the event. Well, there was no clamouring for a higher hurdle anyway. You cannot go round just re-writing the rules of a democratic vote after the event, the idea is preposterous.

 

Like many I was appalled and disconcerted by the obvious lack of any planning for this outcome, an outcome which was certainly within the realms of error in the polls, and for this lack of planning after calling his own referendum on the matter Cameron was breathtakingly negligent. But the noises coming out of the leadership campaign seem well considered and intelligently thought through to me. Good on Theresa May for ruling out an early election too - it might suit the Tories to try to exploit the chaos in the Labour Party at a time when they could not be more vulnerable to wipeout, but she is clearly putting national stability ahead of party interests and she sounds a very safe pair of hands for next PM.

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Good on Theresa May for ruling out an early election too - it might suit the Tories to try to exploit the chaos in the Labour Party at a time when they could not be more vulnerable to wipeout, but she is clearly putting national stability ahead of party interests and she sounds a very safe pair of hands for next PM.

 

No, she's clearly trying to give herself time to deal with the 30% of the Tory party that oppose this madness. It's nothing to do with the good of the country all she is interested in, as Cameron was, is holding the party together regardless of the concequences for the majority of the population.

 

 

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Good on Theresa May for ruling out an early election too - it might suit the Tories to try to exploit the chaos in the Labour Party at a time when they could not be more vulnerable to wipeout, but she is clearly putting national stability ahead of party interests and she sounds a very safe pair of hands for next PM.

 

No, she's clearly trying to give herself time to deal with the 30% of the Tory party that oppose this madness. It's nothing to do with the good of the country all she is interested in, as Cameron was, is holding the party together regardless of the concequences for the majority of the population.

 

 

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No, she's clearly trying to give herself time to deal with the 30% of the Tory party that oppose this madness. It's nothing to do with the good of the country all she is interested in, as Cameron was, is holding the party together regardless of the concequences for the majority of the population.

 

The weakness in the Labour party is allowing the Tories and Britexit to act as if they won the referendum by a large margin.

They didn't and don't represent the majority in the country.

This referendum has created more problems than we had before.

Now we have a large part of the population who are pro-Europe with no power when before it was the anti-Europeans who didn't have the power.

Not a very good exercise in democracy. Is it?

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No, she's clearly trying to give herself time to deal with the 30% of the Tory party that oppose this madness. It's nothing to do with the good of the country all she is interested in, as Cameron was, is holding the party together regardless of the concequences for the majority of the population.

 

The weakness in the Labour party is allowing the Tories and Britexit to act as if they won the referendum by a large margin.

They didn't and don't represent the majority in the country.

This referendum has created more problems than we had before.

Now we have a large part of the population who are pro-Europe with no power when before it was the anti-Europeans who didn't have the power.

Not a very good exercise in democracy. Is it?

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I think you are missing the point of what I'm getting at by a long way.

 

Actually no I am not - It's just not a very good point you make? If the percentages were exactly the same but reversed in favour of "remain" I cannot see any "remain" voters asking for another referendum because the difference is too small. :rolleyes:

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I think you are missing the point of what I'm getting at by a long way.

 

Actually no I am not - It's just not a very good point you make? If the percentages were exactly the same but reversed in favour of "remain" I cannot see any "remain" voters asking for another referendum because the difference is too small. :rolleyes:

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I feel very sorry for Scotland. Ejected from Europe by an unrepresentative English government. What's the betting that the Tory's use the farce of the EU referendum to now place unrealistically high hurdles to the inevitable calls Scottish independance?

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I feel very sorry for Scotland. Ejected from Europe by an unrepresentative English government. What's the betting that the Tory's use the farce of the EU referendum to now place unrealistically high hurdles to the inevitable calls Scottish independance?

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Actually no I am not - It's just not a very good point you make? If the percentages were exactly the same but reversed in favour of "remain" I cannot see any "remain" voters asking for another referendum because the difference is too small. :rolleyes:

 

What a strange point to try to make you do need to compare like with like. Do you honestly think that if remain had won by such a small margin that the the brexiteers would have said that's the end of the matter we''ll all put together and forget about leaving now? If you genuinely think that is the case then thank you, you've answered a lot of questions for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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