Jump to content

The new world


Recommended Posts

 

Direct EU bailout involvement. 6.9bn to ROI Nov' 2010. 3.5bn to Portugal May 2011. Collectively 4.5bn to Greece, in '10, '12, '15, Spain in '12 & Cyprus in '12. This was our contribution through the IMF. There has also been another 855m paid out from our EU budget share.

 

I'd like know how either Portugal or the ROI has found a surplus 10.4bn euros to pay us back with. The Portuguese economy only grew by 0.9% in 2014 upto 1.6% in 2015... The ROI's export growth has dropped sharply from 9.7% in 2014 to 3.9% in 2015...

 

We pay £342bn into the EU budget annually of which £167bn is returned as rebate for the likes of Agriculture, Fisheries etc...

 

Hence the reason why Farage's NHS idiocy was laughed at.

I can't see the relevance of UK monies which have flowed via the IMF unless you are suggesting the UK should withdraw from any involvement in world affairs. That is not really relevant to whether the UK stays in the union.

 

Could you point us in the direction of the relevant pieces of European legislation re the toilet rolls though as I'd be interested to see which bit is snarling things up. There are protectionist things built into all trade deals but they usually focus on foodstuffs etc as well as anti dumping legislation, none of which will disappear if the UK goes it alone. Parts will be more UKcentric for sure but we will be hard pressed to protect all industries. That's the nature of negotiation though, especially when you are in a very weak starting point like the UK is vs Europe.

 

More importantly though, could you source the £342bn/£175bn figures as they are so far away, by a factor of about 20, to the actual UK gross/net budget contributions that I'm afraid we may be discussing different things.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 904
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I can't see the relevance of UK monies which have flowed via the IMF unless you are suggesting the UK should withdraw from any involvement in world affairs. That is not really relevant to whether the UK stays in the union.

 

Could you point us in the direction of the relevant pieces of European legislation re the toilet rolls though as I'd be interested to see which bit is snarling things up. There are protectionist things built into all trade deals but they usually focus on foodstuffs etc as well as anti dumping legislation, none of which will disappear if the UK goes it alone. Parts will be more UKcentric for sure but we will be hard pressed to protect all industries. That's the nature of negotiation though, especially when you are in a very weak starting point like the UK is vs Europe.

 

More importantly though, could you source the £342bn/£175bn figures as they are so far away, by a factor of about 20, to the actual UK gross/net budget contributions that I'm afraid we may be discussing different things.

 

 

Yep, you're right... I've got those figures completely banjaxed... That'll teach me to do it from memory rather than check first whilst sitting in Poole Premier Inn. Sorry hhv.

 

It's 342m per week of which almost half is returned or never leaves...

 

This map gives a good indication for Trade Defence,

 

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2012/june/tradoc_149622.png.

 

There is also the TFEU document which can be downloaded from the EU's website, as can most other things. I think it's worth remembering that preferential trade agreements also come with quantitative restrictions whether they be tariffs or quotas..

Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't see the relevance of UK monies which have flowed via the IMF unless you are suggesting the UK should withdraw from any involvement in world affairs. That is not really relevant to whether the UK stays in the union.

 

Could you point us in the direction of the relevant pieces of European legislation re the toilet rolls though as I'd be interested to see which bit is snarling things up. There are protectionist things built into all trade deals but they usually focus on foodstuffs etc as well as anti dumping legislation, none of which will disappear if the UK goes it alone. Parts will be more UKcentric for sure but we will be hard pressed to protect all industries. That's the nature of negotiation though, especially when you are in a very weak starting point like the UK is vs Europe.

 

More importantly though, could you source the £342bn/£175bn figures as they are so far away, by a factor of about 20, to the actual UK gross/net budget contributions that I'm afraid we may be discussing different things.

 

 

Yep, you're right... I've got those figures completely banjaxed... That'll teach me to do it from memory rather than check first whilst sitting in Poole Premier Inn. Sorry hhv.

 

It's 342m per week of which almost half is returned or never leaves...

 

This map gives a good indication for Trade Defence,

 

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2012/june/tradoc_149622.png.

 

There is also the TFEU document which can be downloaded from the EU's website, as can most other things. I think it's worth remembering that preferential trade agreements also come with quantitative restrictions whether they be tariffs or quotas..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interest rates no change. Hope that's a good sign. Going back to Bad Deal/Good Deal and expect bad and won't be disappointed....always reminds me of when my Dad said "what is a pessimist"? Answer.......an Optimist with experience.:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interest rates no change. Hope that's a good sign. Going back to Bad Deal/Good Deal and expect bad and won't be disappointed....always reminds me of when my Dad said "what is a pessimist"? Answer.......an Optimist with experience.:)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Interest rates no change. Hope that's a good sign. Going back to Bad Deal/Good Deal and expect bad and won't be disappointed....always reminds me of when my Dad said "what is a pessimist"? Answer.......an Optimist with experience.:)

 

My Dad always says "never trust a Tory" hopefully the euro will pick up though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Interest rates no change. Hope that's a good sign. Going back to Bad Deal/Good Deal and expect bad and won't be disappointed....always reminds me of when my Dad said "what is a pessimist"? Answer.......an Optimist with experience.:)

 

My Dad always says "never trust a Tory" hopefully the euro will pick up though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So Theresa May won't invoke article 50 until a deal has been negotiated with Europe.

What happens if this negotiation doesn't give Britain the stopping of the free movement of people which exists at the moment?

What happens if Europe accepts Britain as a trading partner with few if any restrictions but Britain must accept the free movement of people?

As this issue was the most important in the Brexit "manifesto", if it can't be given then we must have another referendum.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So Theresa May won't invoke article 50 until a deal has been negotiated with Europe.

What happens if this negotiation doesn't give Britain the stopping of the free movement of people which exists at the moment?

What happens if Europe accepts Britain as a trading partner with few if any restrictions but Britain must accept the free movement of people?

As this issue was the most important in the Brexit "manifesto", if it can't be given then we must have another referendum.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
What happens if Europe accepts Britain as a trading partner with few if any restrictions but Britain must accept the free movement of people?

 

Depends on what you mean by 'free movement' and which 'people'; we aren't, and never were part of the Schengen agreement, and have controlled borders where passports are checked. EU members and immigrants from other countries can only settle here subject to application and checks. Over half of the 300,000 migrants recently quoted in the latest immigration figures, were not from Europe.

 

Brexit is already devastating the economy, we're heading into recession, and the whole exercise is going to cost an absolute fortune without acheiving anything much, especially with regard to immigration. Brexit campaign was based on appealing to ignorance, hatred, and bigotry with regard to foreigners.

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
What happens if Europe accepts Britain as a trading partner with few if any restrictions but Britain must accept the free movement of people?

 

Depends on what you mean by 'free movement' and which 'people'; we aren't, and never were part of the Schengen agreement, and have controlled borders where passports are checked. EU members and immigrants from other countries can only settle here subject to application and checks. Over half of the 300,000 migrants recently quoted in the latest immigration figures, were not from Europe.

 

Brexit is already devastating the economy, we're heading into recession, and the whole exercise is going to cost an absolute fortune without acheiving anything much, especially with regard to immigration. Brexit campaign was based on appealing to ignorance, hatred, and bigotry with regard to foreigners.

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
So Theresa May won't invoke article 50 until a deal has been negotiated with Europe.

.

or what happens if the EU digs its heels in and won't negotiate until article 50 is invoked?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
So Theresa May won't invoke article 50 until a deal has been negotiated with Europe.

.

or what happens if the EU digs its heels in and won't negotiate until article 50 is invoked?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe NI wanted to remain, Scotland wanted to remain and so did London. So we have the Welsh and the North telling us what to do - great.😡

 

And Poole and Bournemouth and East Dorset etc. Oh!! Where is it you live again? 😉 Ed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe NI wanted to remain, Scotland wanted to remain and so did London. So we have the Welsh and the North telling us what to do - great.😡

 

And Poole and Bournemouth and East Dorset etc. Oh!! Where is it you live again? 😉 Ed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What happens if Europe accepts Britain as a trading partner with few if any restrictions but Britain must accept the free movement of people?

As this issue was the most important in the Brexit "manifesto", if it can't be given then we must have another referendum.[/quote

 

The problem imprimerie is that the government are dead set against another referendum. They stated before the last one that they trusted the British public to make the decision. It would appear however that they only trust the public's decision making when the public are devoid of any accurate information that might enable the public to make an informed decision. The leave campaign leaders are now being threatened with court action for misconduct in public office over their misleading claims.

 

Since the referendum the government has said it will bypass parliament on triggering article 50 although that is also subject to a legal challenge.

 

The best bet for a second referendum on the brexit terms rests with MP's as they are by a large majority in favour of remaining in the EU. MP's are not delegates and so are not held hostage by the referendum result. They have three primary duties to fulfil in holding office. First to represent the views of their electorate. The results in most constituency's were relatively close so it is difficult to see how this can be done without ignoring the substantial minority who are also constituents. The second duty is to support the party, this is quite difficult as well as all the major parties are split on the issue. The third duty is to act in the best interests of the country. With a majority of MP’s thinking that brexit would be a disaster it is difficult to see how they could oppose a referendum on the exit package.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

What happens if Europe accepts Britain as a trading partner with few if any restrictions but Britain must accept the free movement of people?

As this issue was the most important in the Brexit "manifesto", if it can't be given then we must have another referendum.[/quote

 

The problem imprimerie is that the government are dead set against another referendum. They stated before the last one that they trusted the British public to make the decision. It would appear however that they only trust the public's decision making when the public are devoid of any accurate information that might enable the public to make an informed decision. The leave campaign leaders are now being threatened with court action for misconduct in public office over their misleading claims.

 

Since the referendum the government has said it will bypass parliament on triggering article 50 although that is also subject to a legal challenge.

 

The best bet for a second referendum on the brexit terms rests with MP's as they are by a large majority in favour of remaining in the EU. MP's are not delegates and so are not held hostage by the referendum result. They have three primary duties to fulfil in holding office. First to represent the views of their electorate. The results in most constituency's were relatively close so it is difficult to see how this can be done without ignoring the substantial minority who are also constituents. The second duty is to support the party, this is quite difficult as well as all the major parties are split on the issue. The third duty is to act in the best interests of the country. With a majority of MP’s thinking that brexit would be a disaster it is difficult to see how they could oppose a referendum on the exit package.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with that G4rth is that once you trigger article 50 and start negotiations there is no way to reverse it and 2 years later you are out with whatever has been agreed up to that point, unless all parties agree to extend the deadline which they would only do if they were hopeful of getting concessions. If at 1 year and 9 months you have a workable agreement you could certainly put that to the public in a second referendum which they could very well reject in favour of the status quo. But Europe would not then say 'ok let's tear up what we have agreed and have wasted 21 months on and you can stay.' They would either insist we leave as we ratified the Lisbon treaty which included article 50 and were aware of the implications or more likely impose further rules and obligations on the UK with regard to rebates and maybe even the Euro currency itself if we decided to stay. They would have us over a barrel as we would no longer have any veto rights once arrive 50 is triggered. When Theresa May said 'brexit means brexit' she meant it. I know it's hard to believe politicians when they say things but trust me (and I'm not a politician) the UK will leave the EU and the MPs will not be able to overturn the process as if they do they will be ignoring the small majority (who count for more than the substantial minority as they were on the losing side) who clearly expressed their wishes. They may, as you say, personally believe it will be a disaster but they are elected to implement the will of the people and will have to do so. Ed

Edited by Cabin-boy
Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with that G4rth is that once you trigger article 50 and start negotiations there is no way to reverse it and 2 years later you are out with whatever has been agreed up to that point, unless all parties agree to extend the deadline which they would only do if they were hopeful of getting concessions. If at 1 year and 9 months you have a workable agreement you could certainly put that to the public in a second referendum which they could very well reject in favour of the status quo. But Europe would not then say 'ok let's tear up what we have agreed and have wasted 21 months on and you can stay.' They would either insist we leave as we ratified the Lisbon treaty which included article 50 and were aware of the implications or more likely impose further rules and obligations on the UK with regard to rebates and maybe even the Euro currency itself if we decided to stay. They would have us over a barrel as we would no longer have any veto rights once arrive 50 is triggered. When Theresa May said 'brexit means brexit' she meant it. I know it's hard to believe politicians when they say things but trust me (and I'm not a politician) the UK will leave the EU and the MPs will not be able to overturn the process as if they do they will be ignoring the small majority (who count for more than the substantial minority as they were on the losing side) who clearly expressed their wishes. They may, as you say, personally believe it will be a disaster but they are elected to implement the will of the people and will have to do so. Ed

Edited by Cabin-boy
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...