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The £ at 31 year low, Barclays and RBS shares suspended after share price crashes but Boris says project fear is over. Welcome to England 2016.

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The £ at 31 year low, Barclays and RBS shares suspended after share price crashes but Boris says project fear is over. Welcome to England 2016.

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The £ at 31 year low, Barclays and RBS shares suspended after share price crashes but Boris says project fear is over. Welcome to England 2016.

This was all expected but Brexit said it was all scaremongery.

Brexit's win is undeserved and it's use of the UK voting voting system to get their end result,which involved over-exaggeration to the extremes, is disgraceful.

Let's hope the public get another chance to vote in a truthful campaign.

A General Election can be changed every five years but a referendum is a lifelong result.

With such a small margin of victory I really hope that the British public get another chance to vote.

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The £ at 31 year low, Barclays and RBS shares suspended after share price crashes but Boris says project fear is over. Welcome to England 2016.

This was all expected but Brexit said it was all scaremongery.

Brexit's win is undeserved and it's use of the UK voting voting system to get their end result,which involved over-exaggeration to the extremes, is disgraceful.

Let's hope the public get another chance to vote in a truthful campaign.

A General Election can be changed every five years but a referendum is a lifelong result.

With such a small margin of victory I really hope that the British public get another chance to vote.

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With such a small margin of victory I really hope that the British public get another chance to vote.

 

Not as much as I do imprimerie.

 

As a matter of interest, if you had a grandmother who was a naturalized french citizen would you be entitled to a french (EU) passport?

 

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With such a small margin of victory I really hope that the British public get another chance to vote.

 

Not as much as I do imprimerie.

 

As a matter of interest, if you had a grandmother who was a naturalized french citizen would you be entitled to a french (EU) passport?

 

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But what do you want the question to be this time? 'Are you absolutely sure you want the UK to leave the EU? - think carefully before marking this box!' Or do you want a best of three? I accept it may not have been a truthful campaign but when have we ever had a truthful campaign? Your job as voters (and I say you as being resident in France I am unable to vote in UK politics) is to judge before polling day who is telling the truth, who you trust, and if you have any suspicions ask for clarifications and vote against the motion. All these questions need to be be raised before you cast your vote (in the same way a vicar asks for objections before marrying a couple) and can not be raised after. I appreciate that the margin is small but that's how it works. You can't rerun a referendum just as you can't rerun the Falklands' war because the Argies say they didn't know we would send a task force or a rugby match because you didn't know it would rain. Find out all the details before you tick your box as there is no going back.This is not meant to be a criticism of anyone on here's opinions but a general observation of the current farcical situation. Ed

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But what do you want the question to be this time? 'Are you absolutely sure you want the UK to leave the EU? - think carefully before marking this box!' Or do you want a best of three? I accept it may not have been a truthful campaign but when have we ever had a truthful campaign? Your job as voters (and I say you as being resident in France I am unable to vote in UK politics) is to judge before polling day who is telling the truth, who you trust, and if you have any suspicions ask for clarifications and vote against the motion. All these questions need to be be raised before you cast your vote (in the same way a vicar asks for objections before marrying a couple) and can not be raised after. I appreciate that the margin is small but that's how it works. You can't rerun a referendum just as you can't rerun the Falklands' war because the Argies say they didn't know we would send a task force or a rugby match because you didn't know it would rain. Find out all the details before you tick your box as there is no going back.This is not meant to be a criticism of anyone on here's opinions but a general observation of the current farcical situation. Ed

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This was all expected but Brexit said it was all scaremongery.

Brexit's win is undeserved and it's use of the UK voting voting system to get their end result,which involved over-exaggeration to the extremes, is disgraceful.

Let's hope the public get another chance to vote in a truthful campaign.

A General Election can be changed every five years but a referendum is a lifelong result.

With such a small margin of victory I really hope that the British public get another chance to vote.

 

The vote is considered final... why on earth would anyone consider doing it over again? to either get the same result or maybe a small percentage in favour of remain... so the brexits would want another vote on the same basis and on and on we go....never ending...

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This was all expected but Brexit said it was all scaremongery.

Brexit's win is undeserved and it's use of the UK voting voting system to get their end result,which involved over-exaggeration to the extremes, is disgraceful.

Let's hope the public get another chance to vote in a truthful campaign.

A General Election can be changed every five years but a referendum is a lifelong result.

With such a small margin of victory I really hope that the British public get another chance to vote.

 

The vote is considered final... why on earth would anyone consider doing it over again? to either get the same result or maybe a small percentage in favour of remain... so the brexits would want another vote on the same basis and on and on we go....never ending...

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I think the reason people are talking about too close etc is that a lot of people have admitted ticking Leave to have a laugh. There was not really that option for remain as nothing would change. My mother regrets voting Leave and feels duped. To be honest, she did not have the political or financial knowledge to make such a decision but felt she had to vote and listened to and read all the rubbish. Too many people did not have the know how or knowledge but just ticked a box. Like I said at the very beginning, a Government cop out. Parliament are elected to do this type of thing. Already we have to put up with a minority Government getting a majority because of the system and now this. Now look at the MP's. Doing not a lot re Brexit, just infighting for position.

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I think the reason people are talking about too close etc is that a lot of people have admitted ticking Leave to have a laugh. There was not really that option for remain as nothing would change. My mother regrets voting Leave and feels duped. To be honest, she did not have the political or financial knowledge to make such a decision but felt she had to vote and listened to and read all the rubbish. Too many people did not have the know how or knowledge but just ticked a box. Like I said at the very beginning, a Government cop out. Parliament are elected to do this type of thing. Already we have to put up with a minority Government getting a majority because of the system and now this. Now look at the MP's. Doing not a lot re Brexit, just infighting for position.

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Find out all the details before you tick your box

 

Cabin-boy, I take it you weren't for the duration of the campain. How on earth do you expect the average person to see through all the lies they have been feed over the last few weeks?

 

there is no going back.

 

As a believer in democracy I fail to see why two referenda, perhaps a month apart, that give the same result are any less democratic than one. By the same token, if they give differing results I fail to see what is undemocratic in having a third in fact, especially if one is making an irreversible decision, it should be the rule not an exception.

 

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Find out all the details before you tick your box

 

Cabin-boy, I take it you weren't for the duration of the campain. How on earth do you expect the average person to see through all the lies they have been feed over the last few weeks?

 

there is no going back.

 

As a believer in democracy I fail to see why two referenda, perhaps a month apart, that give the same result are any less democratic than one. By the same token, if they give differing results I fail to see what is undemocratic in having a third in fact, especially if one is making an irreversible decision, it should be the rule not an exception.

 

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I think the reason people are talking about too close etc is that a lot of people have admitted ticking Leave to have a laugh.

 

Very true adicat. A friend of my wife, a lady in her sixties, proudly announced she'd voted leave "because I like Boris Johnson he's so funny". Unfortunately when she comes to collect her pension in a couple of years I doubt she'll be saying " oh dear my pensions not done very well but never mind I like Boris Johnson he's so funny". She won't make the connection.

 

 

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I think the reason people are talking about too close etc is that a lot of people have admitted ticking Leave to have a laugh.

 

Very true adicat. A friend of my wife, a lady in her sixties, proudly announced she'd voted leave "because I like Boris Johnson he's so funny". Unfortunately when she comes to collect her pension in a couple of years I doubt she'll be saying " oh dear my pensions not done very well but never mind I like Boris Johnson he's so funny". She won't make the connection.

 

 

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OK G4rth I wasn't in the UK but have been following closely on the radio and online as it might have an impact on my future status here in France. The problem with a second vote is that it is bound to cancel out the first and you are back to square one. If not then it should be final. A third if required would then be a decider, yes, but by that point the seeds of worry will have been sown and people will vote with their hearts not their heads and reject change. You could I suppose take an average of the three which would encourage maximum turnout but I'm not sure it would work. I personally think a better option would have been a third choice: I am unable to decide due to confusing and unclear information and would prefer parliament and my elected representatives to decide for me via a vote in the house (and if a 2/3 majority is not obtained then the motion is rejected). This would involve the Westminster parliament only as they represent the whole of the UK and not the devolved assemblies which are too nationalist in their outlook and would also keep the costs down as having three or more referenda would start to become very costly. Ed

Edited by Cabin-boy
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OK G4rth I wasn't in the UK but have been following closely on the radio and online as it might have an impact on my future status here in France. The problem with a second vote is that it is bound to cancel out the first and you are back to square one. If not then it should be final. A third if required would then be a decider, yes, but by that point the seeds of worry will have been sown and people will vote with their hearts not their heads and reject change. You could I suppose take an average of the three which would encourage maximum turnout but I'm not sure it would work. I personally think a better option would have been a third choice: I am unable to decide due to confusing and unclear information and would prefer parliament and my elected representatives to decide for me via a vote in the house (and if a 2/3 majority is not obtained then the motion is rejected). This would involve the Westminster parliament only as they represent the whole of the UK and not the devolved assemblies which are too nationalist in their outlook and would also keep the costs down as having three or more referenda would start to become very costly. Ed

Edited by Cabin-boy
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Cabin-boy, I take it you weren't for the duration of the campain. How on earth do you expect the average person to see through all the lies they have been feed over the last few weeks?

 

 

 

As a believer in democracy I fail to see why two referenda, perhaps a month apart, that give the same result are any less democratic than one. By the same token, if they give differing results I fail to see what is undemocratic in having a third in fact, especially if one is making an irreversible decision, it should be the rule not an exception.

 

Are you sure the remaining 27 EU countries would be quite happy for the UK to drag this on for a second, third, fourth etc....referendums - I don't think so...

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Cabin-boy, I take it you weren't for the duration of the campain. How on earth do you expect the average person to see through all the lies they have been feed over the last few weeks?

 

 

 

As a believer in democracy I fail to see why two referenda, perhaps a month apart, that give the same result are any less democratic than one. By the same token, if they give differing results I fail to see what is undemocratic in having a third in fact, especially if one is making an irreversible decision, it should be the rule not an exception.

 

Are you sure the remaining 27 EU countries would be quite happy for the UK to drag this on for a second, third, fourth etc....referendums - I don't think so...

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Not as much as I do imprimerie.

 

As a matter of interest, if you had a grandmother who was a naturalized french citizen would you be entitled to a french (EU) passport?

I do have(and so have my family ) French nationality since 2002.I am from West London and 100per cent European in outlook.

Although I respect people's opinions I can't understand the pleasure that some get from playing on their differences.

I look to see what we have in common and not what divides us.

You can change a government after 5 years.You can't change the result of a referendum.That is why you have to have a clear result to give you a winner.

A clear result? At least 55\45.

Not the result that we have know!

Edited by imprimerie
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Not as much as I do imprimerie.

 

As a matter of interest, if you had a grandmother who was a naturalized french citizen would you be entitled to a french (EU) passport?

I do have(and so have my family ) French nationality since 2002.I am from West London and 100per cent European in outlook.

Although I respect people's opinions I can't understand the pleasure that some get from playing on their differences.

I look to see what we have in common and not what divides us.

You can change a government after 5 years.You can't change the result of a referendum.That is why you have to have a clear result to give you a winner.

A clear result? At least 55\45.

Not the result that we have know!

Edited by imprimerie
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I personally think a better option would have been a third choice: I am unable to decide due to confusing and unclear information and would prefer parliament and my elected representatives to decide for me via a vote in the house (and if a 2/3 majority is not obtained then the motion is rejected). This would involve the Westminster parliament only as they represent the whole of the UK and not the devolved assemblies which are too nationalist in their outlook and would also keep the costs down as having three or more referenda would start to become very costly. Ed

 

Good idea, considerably better than what we were saddled with.

 

Are you sure the remaining 27 EU countries would be quite happy for the UK to drag this on for a second, third, fourth etc....referendums - I don't think so...

 

I'm sure the remaining 27 wouldn't be at all happy. However with such a momentus decision being made that has ramifications for all member states I'm sure they would have understood and been prepared to wait.

 

 

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I personally think a better option would have been a third choice: I am unable to decide due to confusing and unclear information and would prefer parliament and my elected representatives to decide for me via a vote in the house (and if a 2/3 majority is not obtained then the motion is rejected). This would involve the Westminster parliament only as they represent the whole of the UK and not the devolved assemblies which are too nationalist in their outlook and would also keep the costs down as having three or more referenda would start to become very costly. Ed

 

Good idea, considerably better than what we were saddled with.

 

Are you sure the remaining 27 EU countries would be quite happy for the UK to drag this on for a second, third, fourth etc....referendums - I don't think so...

 

I'm sure the remaining 27 wouldn't be at all happy. However with such a momentus decision being made that has ramifications for all member states I'm sure they would have understood and been prepared to wait.

 

 

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I've not posted on this topic since the result, partly because have been so busy and partly because as one of the many who voted leave and were proud to do so I figured my contributions would not exactly be welcomed with open arms. I predicted in these forums before the event that the issue would not be settled with the vote and that whoever was on the losing side of a narrow margin would not let the issue die. No surprise that this is exactly what has happened.

 

Just want to comment on two things. Firstly the lies and deceit. I completely agree that the campaigns on both sides were riddled with deception and misinformation. A lot is being said currently about some of the exaggerated claims made by the Leave side, that those who made them are rapidly backtracking from, and it is lamentable that the legitimate arguments in favour of Leave were buried by these high profile banner headlines. But the Remain side was no less guilty. When the Chancellor makes statements like every person in the country will be worse off by £13.87 per week by 2030 (a caricature not a quote), how can he expect us to regard anything he contributes to the debate as being credible? When the Prime Minister makes the sorts of claims he did about the consequence of an exit vote, how can we reconcile those with his decision to call a referendum? The two are not compatible and so we could only see his pronouncements through the eyes of someone making up the next scare story to try to influence the vote. No doubt there were some valid claims made on both sides, but where I am going with this is that both sides so catastrophically mis-managed their case that many of us were left to make up our minds disregarding anything they said. Proper informed debate, with each side acknowledging that the other side had legitimate arguments and that the issue was not black and white and that didn't take the electorate for fools would have given voters much more of substance to go on. As it was, lies, deceit, slandering and smearing the motives of the other side were all that we got and it was profoundly unhelpful. I went into the campaign narrowly on one side of the fence but perfectly prepared to have my mind changed by rational discussion of the issues. Sadly, there was none of that to be found and I therefore had to go on my prior instinct.

 

Secondly, the issue of a second referendum. I actually think that it would have been very sensible to have built into the terms of the referendum that if either side had won by securing less than 60% of the vote on less than a 75% turnout then there would have been provision for a second referendum. I have posted previously that this is such an important and far reaching issue that what matters more than which way the result goes is that it is decisive. So that provision in the terms of the referendum (which is what the petition currently doing the rounds that was set up before the referendum is asking for) would have been a wise and prudent provision to have put into the terms. The problem is, you cannot just go around re-writing the rules of a vote after the event just because you don't like the outcome. That would be a very dangerous precedent to set for our democracy. Why were people not calling for this in large numbers before the event, when it would have been a legitimate call? It's not as if it was a surprise that the margin was so close, the polls were predicting it too close to call for weeks out. So the time for adapting that clause (either way round) was before the vote, not in hindsight.

 

That's enough from me....tin hat time, prepared to be shot down! ;)

 

Edited by Gareth

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