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Poole Harbour Developmement

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Armorique and Cotentin are able to operate from roro3 perfectly well.  They do /did not berth bow-in at Poole so any hypothetical issue restricting ability to do so is a total red herring.

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Regarding the terminal building that is a long time being temporary, only in the past couple of years been refurbished so I am not sure they plan to replace it quite yet.  I said many moons ago that they ought to build something like Cherbourg’s or Pompey’s although on a smaller scale with an external viewing area to look out over Poole Harbour.  They should have an upstairs cafeteria area with outside seating.  If it is going to get busier there then they need to upgrade it.

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4 hours ago, Khaines said:

Regarding the terminal building that is a long time being temporary, only in the past couple of years been refurbished so I am not sure they plan to replace it quite yet.  I said many moons ago that they ought to build something like Cherbourg’s or Pompey’s although on a smaller scale with an external viewing area to look out over Poole Harbour.  They should have an upstairs cafeteria area with outside seating.  If it is going to get busier there then they need to upgrade it.

I suppose the temporary nature of the structure will limit its life though I agree it seems OK at the moment.  But it's remoteness from the car lanes is a serious drawback in my view.  I seem to recall a member of these Forums who used to post regularly at one time and who passed frequently through Poole ferry terminal, presumably by car, admitted he was unaware the port had a pax terminal building!  Anyone who knows Poole ferry terminal will appreciate how that could happen!

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Bit of trivia... Poole Terminal building is the only one which has chemical toilet disposal for caravans & motorhomes and for a small 24 hr fee paid at the cafe those not travelling on a ferry can park there securely and enjoy a town visit.

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The cafe has free wifi - Condor’s.  Can use that from outside on Barfleur if I am lucky - Libby being the go between I presume as probably too far away from the terminal. 

 

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I quite agree there are a number of things going for Poole ferry terminal.  I just happen to think abandoning the plans for a new pax terminal building more than twenty years ago was unfortunate to say the least of it, especially as they were part of an overall plan to redevelop the carpax terminal, the car lanes part of which was carried into effect.  As I remember it the original car lanes were immediately adjacent to the present terminal building (and I ought to as I discovered I had a slow puncture, a duff valve actually, at this location when waiting to board the ferry to Cherbourg and a drive to the South of France ahead of me) where TIR freight vehicles now line up to board the ferries, I believe, at RoRo3.  If PHC weren't going to complete the plan then maybe they should have left the car lanes where they were.

I also quite agree that ferries like Coutances and Armorique can load and discharge at RoRo3 without problems for the most part.  However for ships with the bow configuration of these vessels it does seem if there is a limitation which PHC cannot disguise since it might have some bearing on tonnage flexibility.  When I last came ashore from Armorique us foot pax did so via a minibus driven up onto the upper vehicle deck.  And on a special enthusiasts' day trip to Cherbourg we embarked and disembarked on/off Cotentin the same way only this time over the bow thus getting a clear indication of the difference between the arrangements at this port and Poole.

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Interesting to read in an earlier post that HM Government is pressing PHC to exploit the Hamworthy branch line for intermodal freight traffic.  I seem to recall reading in these Forums not so long ago that the rail track authority was proposing lifting this track.  Evidently this hasn't happened -- was it ever likely to?  Just another report way off beam.  One hopes PHC will indeed get on and exploit this facility especially as they now have South Quay able to take larger vessels than previously including container ships.  They have shown an interest in containers on mafi trailers but currently MN Pelican doesn't convey such to/from Spain.  If this vessel is replaced by a larger one at some future date as has been suggested maybe BF will think again with containers arriving and departing by rail.

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On 06/01/2018 at 14:33, Millsy said:

The branch was in use for stone traffic from Jan 2017

I hope to be in Poole in a few weeks time so must take a look but pleased to hear the rail line is back in use.  I don't know how frequent these stone trains are.  The last time I saw a locomotive on these tracks by the ferry terminal it was one of those large American (actually in Canada, I believe) made freight engines.  I don't know the class number but it was a sight to behold and it does serve to show what Poole is capable of.

Having thought about it I think the problem PHC have with their ferry berths is not so much overall length of ferries as beam.  The lower element of RoRo3 has been very visibly widened at its outer end, or that was the position when I was last there.  I don't know if the same has been done to RoRo2 for Condor Lib. and what the max beam is for ferries.  I have heard that vessels of a max of 30m beam can transit the deep water channel but this may not be a precise figure and may be greater.

Edited by Hawser Trunnion

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Prompted by a discussion elsewhere in these Forums I take it South Quay is now finished or substantially so as it is due to be formally opened next Tuesday, the 23rd.  This also the day of the PHC Open Meeting.

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On 14/06/2017 at 12:35, 102 said:

PHC have approved the construction of a new passenger gangway, which will primarily serve the Barfleur. The gangway, which is being constructed off site, is expected to be completed in September 2017. 

Good to see PHC investing in the port!

The new gangway is quickly taking shape in Poole! Photos kindly shared by @Kevin

Poole Gangway 1.jpg

Poole Gangway 2.jpg

Poole Gangway 3.jpg

Poole Gangway 4.jpg

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Great pictures.  Surprised the structure is not on wheels though - is it being designed specifically to serve Barfleur?  I'd have thought it would have been more versatile if they could move it up and down the quay like the ones at Plymouth and Ouistreham.

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Studying the photos it does very much look as this new pax gangway is fixed and specifically for Barfleur.  I suppose one ought to wait until its finished before passing final judgement but if this is the case most observers of the scene would think PHC are being distinctly shortsighted.  As recent developments have shown even BF are not beyond springing surprises.  Indeed the vessel involved in this surprise was for a period as Norman Asturias a regular user of the berth depicted in the photos.  As I have suggested in previous posts PHC do like to see themselves as working in close partnership with BF but whether this is reciprocated I'm not so sure.  And by BF I mean the main boards of directors in France not their local representatives on this side of the Channel.  For the moment present arrangements seem likely to continue but one never knows.

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Where is the side door located on Armorique? Given that she is due in Poole to replace Barfleur in the coming weeks, perhaps they are planning to configure this new gangway so that it can be repositioned for both vessels as required. Ed

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When Arm was here last time we were bussed on and off her, not sure where the foot passenger doors on, looking at pictures looks like Deck 6 - can see what possibly look like doors between the rows of windows, but maybe not doors on the other hand...

Edited by Khaines

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I remember being taken by an airport-style bus to board Arm in Roscoff but I don't recall it entering the ship so there must have been a gangway. Maybe there isn't a door as such and they just open a railing on the promenade deck to welcome foot passengers. Ed

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This picture gives you an idea of where the gangway connects to the ship at Roscoff.  In the picture the gangway is raised but the doors are at the two square windows under the end of the gangway (in the level of windows that leads into the blue stripe at the front).

IMG_0003.JPG

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I don't know if you've ever noticed, but at Ouistreham there are markings on the quayside indicating the positions they have to move the gangway tower to for each ship.  There are markings for all three of them - MSM, Normandie and Armorique.  The wheels start moving, to get the thing into it's new position, almost as soon as they lift the gangway on the departing ship.

I have to say, on this occasion I am in full agreement with HT.  If this new construction at a Poole is not being built with an eye on versatility, along the lines seen in other BF ports, and really is being built just specifically for one ship, then that is monumentally short-sighted of those responsible at PHC.

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Thanks Gareth. Will Arm be bow- or stern-in at Poole?. In the photos, Barfleur is stern-in and the access door is about one third of the way back from the bow. On Arm the door seems about one third of the way forward from the stern. Ed

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3 hours ago, Gareth said:

I don't know if you've ever noticed, but at Ouistreham there are markings on the quayside indicating the positions they have to move the gangway tower to for each ship.  There are markings for all three of them - MSM, Normandie and Armorique.  The wheels start moving, to get the thing into it's new position, almost as soon as they lift the gangway on the departing ship.

I have to say, on this occasion I am in full agreement with HT.  If this new construction at a Poole is not being built with an eye on versatility, along the lines seen in other BF ports, and really is being built just specifically for one ship, then that is monumentally short-sighted of those responsible at PHC.

One wonders if this installation, like the doubledecking of RoRo3 apparently, is being paid for, at least in part, by BF.  Thus it can't be a surprise it could be specifically intended for a specific ship.  But whether this does anything for Poole's development generally as a ferry port might be seen as questionable.

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11 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Thanks Gareth. Will Arm be bow- or stern-in at Poole?. In the photos, Barfleur is stern-in and the access door is about one third of the way back from the bow. On Arm the door seems about one third of the way forward from the stern. Ed

Stern in - took this pic the last time she was here.  Regarding markings on the quayside, they are at Cherbourg as well.  What I think is an access door is just above the two Rs.

570E9CDE-DCEF-4559-A64B-7AA57DD30CC5.jpeg

Edited by Khaines

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11 hours ago, Gareth said:

I don't know if you've ever noticed, but at Ouistreham there are markings on the quayside indicating the positions they have to move the gangway tower to for each ship.  There are markings for all three of them - MSM, Normandie and Armorique.  The wheels start moving, to get the thing into it's new position, almost as soon as they lift the gangway on the departing ship.

I have to say, on this occasion I am in full agreement with HT.  If this new construction at a Poole is not being built with an eye on versatility, along the lines seen in other BF ports, and really is being built just specifically for one ship, then that is monumentally short-sighted of those responsible at PHC.

I am trying to remember from a while back a post on Poole Harbour and Port History Facebook page where there was comment on the new gangway and I am pretty sure there was mention of it being movable. I can ask. 

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