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Gareth

General Discussions on Brexit

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10 minutes ago, nick hall said:

The right of the party, although sizable isn't influencing the leaderships Brexit policy.

 

So you don't think the ERG are the right wing of the Conservative party? Perhaps they are all nice cuddly middle of the road people. I'm unlucky enough to have one of them as my MP, believe me they're not.

Edited by G4rth

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2 minutes ago, G4rth said:

So you don't think the ERG are the right wing of the Conservative party? Perhaps they are all nice cuddly middle of the road people. I'm unlucky enough to have one of them as my MP, believe me they're not.

Sorry you've misunderstood me. I do think the ERG are to the right of the Conservative party, I just don't think they have much influence. They have the numbers to force a leadership ballot but not the numbers to win one, which is why May, for all her failings is probably safe.

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8 minutes ago, nick hall said:

Sorry you've misunderstood me. I do think the ERG are to the right of the Conservative party, I just don't think they have much influence. They have the numbers to force a leadership ballot but not the numbers to win one, which is why May, for all her failings is probably safe.

He hasn’t misunderstood you - he is deliberately misrepresenting you.  That is his style! 😉

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Just now, nick hall said:

Sorry you've misunderstood me. I do think the ERG are to the right of the Conservative party, I just don't think they have much influence. They have the numbers to force a leadership ballot but not the numbers to win one, which is why May, for all her failings is probably safe.

I think they have more influence than their numbers would dictate. That surely is a part of the problem. No group has enough numbers to make a decisive influence on policy and as a consequence policy shifts backwards and forwards on a daily basis. Like them or not at least the EU have stuck to their principles. The UK position appears to be hang on and hope the EU agrees to dismantle itself.

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2 minutes ago, Gareth said:

He hasn’t misunderstood you - he is deliberately misrepresenting you.  That is his style! 😉

Bit offensive for a mod Gareth. You can always ban me again if you want to.😉

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45 minutes ago, G4rth said:

Bit offensive for a mod Gareth. You can always ban me again if you want to.😉

Gosh, I’d forgotten about that!  But it wasn’t a ban was it, it was just a couple of days on post moderation for accusing the site of censorship for trying to keep Brexit diacussion in the Brexit thread.  I don’t feel any need to ban you and never did - as you know, I hold your contributions in high regard.

(I just wish you’d stop putting words in people’s mouths - and I had thought that was just me! Apologies if offence was caused, was just speaking from the experience of one who has been on the receiving end of the tactic more than once!) 😉

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We don't overly rely on the EU for trade, we do more business with the rest of the world and the gap is rising. EU production is dropping plus the Netherlands and Germany announced earlier this year that they can't keep paying attractive above average salaries, they've said they are unsustainable.

Just because we and Ireland have goods passing through the likes of Rotterdam doesn't mean they're destined for the EU.

Tariffs, The EU doesn't mean tariff free goods across the board only on selected goods, mainly those already free under WTO rules anyway, some are reduced but gain mainly on goods we buy the least of.  Only 1.5% of any tariff we receive goes into our coffers the other 8.5% goes to the EU, it's the same for all members, admin costs are covered nothing more, we earn nothing.

The EU pick and choose what goods can be bought and sold to and from none EU countries. Changes rarely hit the headlines. In January the EU increased tariffs on goods to Algeria between 5% and 60% on 32 groups of finished and semi finished products ranging from automotive to wines and spirits, it was done whether the UK liked it or not or whether it effected our exports or not.

Again the EU have slapped 25% tariffs on goods from the US  because of an argument over EU steel and aluminium, why should the UK or any other country which doesn't supply these metals to the U.S suffer the greater expense to goods on the highstreet?

 

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11 hours ago, nick hall said:

That's where I differ, I think WTO terms are a better deal than what we have now. The price we have to pay to be in the single market and customs union makes membership less favorable than WTO.

And by price I don't just mean our budget contributions, I mean having to accept the free movement of people, European Court of Justice jurisdiction and having to accept EU rules and directives.

and I totally understand that viewpoint, if it's the "price worth paying" , any economic side affects are secondary to absolute sovereignty.    We shouldn't be under the illusion that the short term wont be painful - businesses will have to bear the cost of tariffs into the EU and the additional costs of customs checks/delays/paperwork.

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