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Gareth

General Discussions on Brexit

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When you say “is in the Tory manifesto”, which document are you referring to?  The one that was compiled for the 2017 election?  (The only one that is currently “live”).  Interesting situation if so, because that would make it current government policy.  If that’s the case I’m surprised it is not being made a higher profile issue by the opposition!

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9 minutes ago, JohnMustow said:

All sorts of ideas out there but many countries already have overseas voters for example France which has deputies assigned to certain territories and USA which require overseas voters to register at their embassy and vote there for their congressman back in their home state.

The French territories are considered as being equal to mainland France so the MPs live and work there, flying back to Paris as and when required (or to visit their mistress/toyboy etc!). There is, as far as I'm aware, no French MP specifically representing expats. There will be a minister with responsibility for such people, but one nominated by the prime minister and president. The American model might work as long as you can decide where you last lived (and/or voted) but might not suit those holding British passports but born abroad or taken overseas by their parents as young children. A separate MP dedicated to such cases would allow more focused attention and better representation. Ed. 

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For me, your voting rights should be linked to where you are assessable for tax (I emphasise assessable, because some, through personal circumstances, are assessable but have no liability).

In our case, we will lose our UK voting right shortly (in my view, should have lost it once we ceased to be UK taxpayers), but sadly have no national government voting right here in France despite being taxpayers here.

Just my view.  Its clear cut, and has (IMO) more than a bit of logic to it.

 

 

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I may once have accidentally put an old - sized five pence piece in a French train ticket machine instead of a 5 franc coin. But only once you understand. The fact that it allowed me, on just that one occasion, to buy a ticket for a tenth of the real price was not an excuse to do so again. 😉 Ed. 

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5 minutes ago, Gardian said:

For me, your voting rights should be linked to where you are assessable for tax (I emphasise assessable, because some, through personal circumstances, are assessable but have no liability).

In our case, we will lose our UK voting right shortly (in my view, should have lost it once we ceased to be UK taxpayers), but sadly have no national government voting right here in France despite being taxpayers here.

Just my view.  Its clear cut, and has (IMO) more than a bit of logic to it.

 

 

Absolutely.  Voting and taxation are inextricably linked.  When it a boils down to it, most of what we vote for is how much tax is going to be taken off us and how it is going to be spent.  The idea that you can have voting rights somewhere where you have no tax assesment liability (good phrase) misses the whole point of the system.

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16 minutes ago, Gareth said:

The idea that you can have voting rights somewhere where you have no tax assesment liability (good phrase) misses the whole point of the system

Exactly.  One is reminded of the American Revolution and it's phrase, "No taxation without representation".  On this thread we have the opposite.  People looking for "representation without taxation".  

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30 minutes ago, Buzzbee said:

Exactly.  One is reminded of the American Revolution and it's phrase, "No taxation without representation".  On this thread we have the opposite.  People looking for "representation without taxation".  

Which is exactly the point I was trying to get across yesterday. Ed. 

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3 hours ago, JohnMustow said:

15 years away and you can no longer register to vote so you might just make 16 although they do ask when you left so I suppose you tell porkies and go with a proxy vote at a friends address for an extra couple of years depending on how quick your new owner registers to vote at you4 old address.

John I take it you don't live in England?

Being on the electoral roll isn't just about voting, you can't get any form of credit without it not even a very basic bank account... Your bank will very swiftly know if you don't re-register and start asking you if they need to alter your account status.

Even if you rent a house they'll still perform a credit search, no electoral roll then no rented accommodation plus you certainly won't get your utilities without being registered, you'll then have the issue of back billing.

Every company will take a dim view of any individual not registered especially as it now forms part of the strategic defence against identity theft and fraud.

Mind you as less than 6% of eligible Ex Pats bother to register to vote anyway it's not exactly going to tip the scales is it?

2 hours ago, neilcvx said:

Well the Conservatives in Scotland are being investigated for potentially illegal funding of their election campaign , so if it’s good enough for the goose,,,

Yes, Neil and two wrongs to make a right do they?

Personally I wouldn't lower my standards.

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

 

Yes, Neil and two wrongs to make a right do they?

Personally I wouldn't lower my standards.

I wouldn’t expect anyone to lower themselves to that guteral level of politics, in my opinion the whole UK election and referendum system is inadequate antiquated and unfit for purpose and is only kept in place by the current political parties as it suits them and they are obviously helped by a compliment mainstream media.

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G4rth - I didn't say that the Fixed Term Parliaments Act couldn't be repealed , of course it could. But who in the current political situation would want it repealed? Not the Tories, certainly not the SNP, and most certainly not the Lib Dems whose price it was (among others) for entering coalition in 2010. Politics, famously, is 'the art of the possible' and repealing that Act is simply impossible.  Unless the Parliamentary Labour party splits into two (as in 1982) as is so often suggested,  the Tories have almost four more years in government. (Note - government, not power!)

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16 minutes ago, BBCone said:

G4rth - I didn't say that the Fixed Term Parliaments Act couldn't be repealed , of course it could. But who in the current political situation would want it repealed? Not the Tories, certainly not the SNP, and most certainly not the Lib Dems whose price it was (among others) for entering coalition in 2010. Politics, famously, is 'the art of the possible' and repealing that Act is simply impossible.  Unless the Parliamentary Labour party splits into two (as in 1982) as is so often suggested,  the Tories have almost four more years in government. (Note - government, not power!)

Sorry if I misunderstood you BBCone. At a time when normality is standing on it's head turkeys may well vote for Christmas.

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5 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

The French territories are considered as being equal to mainland France so the MPs live and work there, flying back to Paris as and when required (or to visit their mistress/toyboy etc!). There is, as far as I'm aware, no French MP specifically representing expats. There will be a minister with responsibility for such people, but one nominated by the prime minister and president. The American model might work as long as you can decide where you last lived (and/or voted) but might not suit those holding British passports but born abroad or taken overseas by their parents as young children. A separate MP dedicated to such cases would allow more focused attention and better representation. Ed. 

Ed, 

French expats are divided in 11 consistuencies represented by 11 MPs.

Polling stations are opened for each national election in various consulates and embassies. I believe the representation is the same as for French circonscriptions ie 1 MP for approx 150000 people 

http://www2.assemblee-nationale.fr/recherche-localisee/carte/FRANÇAIS ÉTABLIS HORS DE FRANCE

Edited by crechbleiz
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Sorry if I misunderstood you BBCone. At a time when normality is standing on it's head turkeys may well vote for Christmas.

Thanks G4rth. I just can't see it, though. The only loser from the Act is the Prime Minister of the day while for MPs it's job security. 

2 minutes ago, crechbleiz said:

 

 

 

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 There is, as far as I'm aware, no French MP specifically representing expats.

 

I vaguely remember someone campaigning at the last election to be the Assemby member for French ex-pats in London.  Can anyone confirm this?

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Just now, BBCone said:

 There is, as far as I'm aware, no French MP specifically representing expats.

 

I vaguely remember someone campaigning at the last election to be the Assemby member for French ex-pats in London.  Can anyone confirm this?

The MP representing Northern Eupore is Mr Holroyd who is member of Macron's party. 

http://www2.assemblee-nationale.fr/deputes/fiche/OMC_PA721150#menubienvenue

11 MPs are representing expats 

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8 hours ago, crechbleiz said:

Ed, 

French expats are divided in 11 consistuencies represented by 11 MPs.

Polling stations are opened for each national election in various consulates and embassies. I believe the representation is the same as for French circonscriptions ie 1 MP for approx 150000 people 

http://www2.assemblee-nationale.fr/recherche-localisee/carte/FRANÇAIS ÉTABLIS HORS DE FRANCE

Thanks for clarifying that. It looks like the sort of model that could perhaps be adopted. The fact they need 11 to deal with the numbers involved suggests either that French expats are  just more politically aware and interested in what happens back home or that their period of exile is only short term and they envisage moving back at some point so wish to be sure that they have a say in what is happening. Ed. 

Edited by Cabin-boy

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3 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Thanks for clarifying that. It looks like the sort of model that could perhaps be adopted. The fact they need 11 to deal with the numbers involved suggests either that French expats are  just more politically aware and interested in what happens back home or that their period of exile is only short term and they envisage moving back at some point so wish to be sure that they have a say in what is happening. Ed. 

I think it is more that the departments of France that are detached in the South Pacific for instance are included in this count.

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On 24/09/2018 at 11:21, G4rth said:

It's certainly made leaving almost definite I would have thought. I doubt there will even be another referendum now as I can't see there will be anything to vote on if Labour continue on their current course. Crash out will make the next election, whenever it comes, interesting. Conservatives split 80/20 and labour split 83/17 the other way.

 

Starmer not singing from the same hymn sheet as Corbyn and MacDonald.  Labour leadership appears to be as divided as the government.

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59 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Starmer not singing from the same hymn sheet as Corbyn and MacDonald.  Labour leadership appears to be as divided as the government.

I think that's a real problem for Corbyn. Labour voters are more split than Labour activists. How does he avoid upsetting his voters but retain enough manpower to run an election campaign, fund raise and deliver election material etc?

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10 minutes ago, Khaines said:

Watching Starmer getting the applause and what looked like Dennis Skinner sitting stony faced..😄

That’s Skinners resting bitch face, he’s an excellent MP but is a bit unique as in he doesn’t pretend to even remotely like something or someone he doesn’t agree with.

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Well though Starmer’s speech was received by the assembled masses, it doesn’t seem he was speaking with the authority of the leader of the party.  So what exactly Labour actually stands for on this is something that I don’t think we are any wiser about.

It will interesting to see how this pans out, but if it ever gets to the point where Labour actually needs to nail its colours to the mast, it is difficult to see how both Corbyn and Starmer could simultaneously remain in post.

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Oh - that’ll teach me to pontificate!  Now I read that Corbyn is actually backing what Starmer had to say.  Don’t I look the fool.

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The basic problem seems to be that all political people are putting their personal or party interests ahead of those of the country. May they be called to account in due course.

Political pygmies, all of them. Where are the statesmen we need who can take a long term view in the country's best interests? It is all so depressing.

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