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Andy

HONFLEUR - Arriving June 2019

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I beg your pardon?!! Hijack the thread?!! What nonsense. All I did yesterday was post to say the order was encouraging. I never mentioned Brexit. Neilcvx brought up Brexit by attempting to blame the 2014 cancellation of Pegasis on it.

 

Sorry if I've misunderstood you. When you said "that they are confident in the demand for U.K.- France ferry travel despite the vote" I thought you were refering to "the vote" and not some other vote.

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I would expect the new ship to have wifi throughout it ,usb charging points in all cabins and maybe even public spaces, be interesting to see if they do pet friendly cabins on her I still think she will have cinemas .

 

I'm inclined to agree with this. There's more to having a cinema than just a facility to watch films. Not my scene (I'm quite happy watching a film on a TV screen in my room, in fact prefer it). But for many it is a sense of occasion, social centre, somewhere to occupy the kids etc. So I suspect the travelling public is not ready yet to lose its onboard cinema. Don't know, is it a revenue earner as well or are the onboard films free? Never been to one.

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Pont-Aven had a price of £6.50 for adults, I believe - would assume this is same fleet wide

 

Which I think is great value, compared to the current prices in high street cinemas.

 

It's also worth remembering that the on-board wifi currently limits/forbids the use of video streaming and I wouldn't imagine it is fast enough to sustain it even if that wasn't the case. Not to mention that it would only take a large school group hammering away at their phones to disrupt it. If BF are currently happy with their cinema sales, I can't see them going away for a long time yet.

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The wifi and cinema are both here to stay as far as I would think it's also worth remembering that technology advances at a fast rate and at sea wifi is no exception having said that it's all about cost at the end of the day is it worth spending a fortune on a super fast broadband system? Probably not just a check email Facebook system is probably what you will get.

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The more I look at that blue line, the more I think it makes the ship resemble a banana!

 

The more I look at it the more I wonder if it's designed to be able to wear the Economie livery!

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All, whilst I accept that it's a major event and it has effects on many things given the subject in hand, can we please keep Brexit out of this one? I'm not going to go back and delete/modify a load of posts but needless to say that it is best for all if we stick to the topic - thanks :)

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Wasn't CalMac's Loch Seaforth built at the same yard? There are certainly some similarities in the design, with the long stern for example.

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The wifi and cinema are both here to stay as far as I would think it's also worth remembering that technology advances at a fast rate and at sea wifi is no exception having said that it's all about cost at the end of the day is it worth spending a fortune on a super fast broadband system? Probably not just a check email Facebook system is probably what you will get.

 

Maybe the combination of the two could be the MediaServer that many rail companies are moving towards (will be moving towards - only up and running on Virgin West Coast at present) whereby content is loaded onto a server overnight and can then be viewed when the train is out in service during the day. I've not used the system, but they claim that there is no buffering etc. as the content is already there - you are not trying to download it whilst in signal blackspots such as the Lake District. I don't know the technological ins and outs of the system and whether it could be transferred to rail but could fit the bill in terms of providing media content to individual devices.

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All, whilst I accept that it's a major event and it has effects on many things given the subject in hand, can we please keep Brexit out of this one? I'm not going to go back and delete/modify a load of posts but needless to say that it is best for all if we stick to the topic - thanks :)

 

Thanks Adam, much appreciated 😀

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Wasn't CalMac's Loch Seaforth built at the same yard? There are certainly some similarities in the design, with the long stern for example.

 

Indeed she was and is apparently a great sea keeper and a popular ship.

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1680 passengers is quite a lot less than MSM's theoretical 2200. But 257 cabins may represent a slight increase over MSM's cabin provision. Cabins available for a greater proportion of passengers therefore.

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Sorry but burning LNG doesn't make a passenger ferry more efficient it's just an alternative fuel source which gained more ground after I.S took over most of Iraq's largest fuel oil producers causing the oil price to rocket, that all changed nearly 2 years ago.

 

Staying with low sulphur red diesel currently makes more sense... It's cheaper to produce, cheaper to buy, cheaper to store, cheaper to transport & safer to refuel, doesn't need catalysers nor an additive similar to AdBlue if burned through a Low Pressure Exhaust Gas Recirculator-LPEGR and at current standards will meet the the 2020 0.1 Sox emission regs and lowers fuel consumption... That's efficient.

 

Out of curiosity, how many of the non LNG powered ferries which serve within the SECA area have scrubbers fitted? They are a waste of money especially as refineries are halting the supply of HFO in favour of their new refiners and extractors making LSD cheaper and quicker to produce, again more efficient.

 

BF spent 80m on catalysers in 2015, personally I wouldn't have bothered, in all probability they no longer burn HFO anyway, when on board it certainly doesn't smell like they do, so in turn they probably don't even use them.

 

The irony is that due to drag factors the Pont Aven is probably less efficient than she was 2 years ago.

 

The Energy Efficiency Design Index-EEDI, which forms part of the MARPOL Annex VI isn't just about powerplant anymore, it also covers such things as desalination processing and the filtration of grey wastewater. illumination and essentially everything else which requires power. It's about modern bonding compounds during construction and parts capable of being reproduced through 3D printing. They are also actively encouraged to incorporate new lighter less maintenance heavy products in cabins and public spaces and more intelligent automated systems. The modern, low resistance paint formulations.

 

This is what they mean by efficient.

 

Any new build simply by design and construction would be more efficient regardless of fuel.

 

.

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Diesel as a fuel is being banned by a lot of major city's and for a good reason it omits very nasty carcangeric chemicals it's a fuel of the present and the past but not the future.

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I think in using the word "efficient" BF is being a bit loose with their choice of word. What they really mean is probably clean.

 

It is actually meaningless to describe a fuel as efficient. It is the engine that converts the energy stored in the fuel into other forms that has an efficiency. We can describe, for instance, one type of light bulb as being more efficient than another, but it is as meaningless to describe "electricity" as "efficient" as it is to describe a particular type of fuel in the same way.

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While 'efficient' might not be quite the correct description, different fuels do have varying calorific values. For a given volume, diesel contains more energy than petrol for example so you can go further on a tankful of diesel than of petrol as everyone knows.

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1680 passengers is quite a lot less than MSM's theoretical 2200. But 257 cabins may represent a slight increase over MSM's cabin provision. Cabins available for a greater proportion of passengers therefore.

 

The capacity of the new ship seems more realistic. How many times did the MONT ST MICHEL or NORMANDIE ever carry over 2000 passengers? On night crossings, capacity is limited by the amount of sleeping accommodation, and the new ship will have more cabins than either of the two present ships. On all sailings, the amount of vehicle space is a limitation as people with cars will choose another route rather than leave their cars behind,

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Indeed, sorry, for some reason had 2004 in my head for MSM but it was 2002 wasn't it.

 

So:

 

MSM / Normandie 10 years

MSM / MSM2 17 years

 

Even starker than I originally thought.

 

 

That said, MSM has aged far better than Nomandie did, IMHO.

 

If Normandie does move to Le Havre, presumably knocking the Etretat either somewhere else or out of the fleet, I wonder if we'll still see the Economie brand.

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Diesel as a fuel is being banned by a lot of major city's and for a good reason it omits very nasty carcangeric chemicals it's a fuel of the present and the past but not the future.

 

 

They are banning Euro 3 and below. 4,5 6 are fine, it's a good job too otherwise they'd have no refuse collections or emergency services let alone goods in their shops...

 

Both the WHO and the IARC have reclassified NTDE's-New Technology Diesel Exhaust as group 3.

 

"The agent (mixture or exposure circumstance) is not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans."

.

Edited by jonno

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Diesel as a fuel is being banned by a lot of major city's and for a good reason it omits very nasty carcangeric chemicals it's a fuel of the present and the past but not the future.

 

 

They are banning Euro 3 and below. 4,5 6 are fine, it's a good job too otherwise they'd have no refuse collections or emergency services let alone goods in their shops...

 

Both the WHO and the IARC have reclassified NTDE's-New Technology Diesel Exhaust as group 3.

 

"The agent (mixture or exposure circumstance) is not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans."

.

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The capacity of the new ship seems more realistic. How many times did the MONT ST MICHEL or NORMANDIE ever carry over 2000 passengers? On night crossings, capacity is limited by the amount of sleeping accommodation, and the new ship will have more cabins than either of the two present ships. On all sailings, the amount of vehicle space is a limitation as people with cars will choose another route rather than leave their cars behind,

 

 

Yes, it will be interesting to see how many reclining pullman seats are fitted plus I think it's worth remembering that cars are bigger today too, a 2016 VW polo is 4m long, the same as a '92 MK3 Golf.

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Yes, it will be interesting to see how many reclining pullman seats are fitted plus I think it's worth remembering that cars are bigger today too, a 2016 VW polo is 4m long, the same as a '92 MK3 Golf.

The increase in width is also a big problem, it is very obvious when parked on deck 4 or 5 on Bretagne. For example, the current Ford Fiesta is as wide as a VW T2 bus....

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I never understood why they didn't just repaint the lines on Bretagne to make the lanes wider. Ok, they'll lose 1 lane's worth around the deck but the configuration would suit today's cars. It is just paint that defines the lanes, isn't it, there isn"t anything more fundamental or structural that would preclude a reconfiguration (?).

 

On Armorique and the Caen ships I've generally found they don't often use all the lanes anyway, with 2 rows of cars often placed with either half or a full empty row between them. It's great when this happens and you have plenty of space to get things out of the car.

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