HONFLEUR - New Build for Ouistreham Route - CANCELLED

[hf_uk]

Just now, David Williams said:

I don't get that - Amorique could do either a Breakfast or an early Dinner on a crossing, the Caen ships can only do one meal a crossing. 

Amorique is also often used for the Caen crossings.

They knew that for the majority of her life, she would do doing UK-France departures at 10pm or later. There is simply no market for a bit 3 course evening meal on board at these times.

[David Williams]

Just now, Gareth said:

Good to know the up to date information about the artwork.  Maybe those hoping to travel on her can go and visit it in Flensburg! 🤣

I trust that they are being stored under better conditions than a German shipyard.

I like ships being given some character with paintings, however it is a shame that they couldn't get just one artist involved like the Bretagne.

[Gareth]

Just now, David Williams said:

I don't get that - Amorique could do either a Breakfast or an early Dinner on a crossing, the Caen ships can only do one meal a crossing. 

Amorique is also often used for the Caen crossings.

There’s nothing to get - it’s a fact.  Armorique was ordered without a restaurant for the explicit reason that one was not considered to be necessary on her primary route.

Plenty of us don’t agree with that, but that doesn’t change the fact of the reason why she was configured as she was.

It was a cost-saving exercise.  I bet that TPTB at BF headquarters would have had second thoughts about that if they could have that time again if they had known how controversial it would turn out to be.

I personally don’t see any difference in the rationale for a restaurant on the Caen route compared with the Roscoff route.  Any rationale that applies to Roscoff ought to be equally applicable to Caen.  So, for me, the fact that Honfleur has been ordered with a restaurant is an implicit admission that they got it wrong with Armorique.

[Cabin-boy]

11 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

How much did all those pictures cost? does anyone know?

Neil provided a link last year to give you some idea.  

But it's not what BF paid for them that matters, it's what they are worth now that counts. Ed. 

[neilcvx]

1 minute ago, Gareth said:

.  So, for me, the fact that Honfleur has been ordered with a restaurant is an implicit admission that they got it wrong with Armorique.

I would disagree I think BF are happy with the lower running costs of Armorique on a quieter route apart from peak season when it’s mobbed without a restaurant, I’m pretty sure they don’t have regrets especially looking at the bank balance.

[hf_uk]

1 minute ago, neilcvx said:

I would disagree I think BF are happy with the lower running costs of Armorique on a quieter route apart from peak season when it’s mobbed without a restaurant, I’m pretty sure they don’t have regrets especially looking at the bank balance.

Agree. Plymouth-Roscoff doesn't need an a la carte... despite how much some people may want one!

Plus there is the Pont Aven sailings which offer this during the season.

[neilcvx]

5 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Neil provided a link last year to give you some idea.  

But it's not what BF paid for them that matters, it's what they are worth now that counts. Ed. 

I wonder how much they paid to Goudie for the work on  Bretagne  as a comparison , they aren’t spending a great deal relatively and personally I think it’s great to see interesting art on board better than the Instagram booth on Armorique any day.

[Paully]

Now for the 64Million Dollar question..........Anybody brave enough to give it a go????????????

[Gareth]

6 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

Agree. Plymouth-Roscoff doesn't need an a la carte... despite how much some people may want one!

Plus there is the Pont Aven sailings which offer this during the season.

It may be that it doesn’t from an economic point of view.  But the argument that there is no need for one because of the timing of the sailings is a logical fallacy if it is accepted that the sailing times on the Caen route warrant one.  There is no difference as far as the customer is concerned.

[hf_uk]

14 minutes ago, Gareth said:

It may be that it doesn’t from an economic point of view.  But the argument that there is no need for one because of the timing of the sailings is a logical fallacy if it is accepted that the sailing times on the Caen route warrant one.  There is no difference as far as the customer is concerned.

...But you always have a daytime sailing as well. That's the point, so no matter what direction it is going, there will be 1 'desirable' timeslot in the main restaurant on the Caen route...
With Roscoff there is not... !?

[Gareth]

The reason Armorique doesn’t have a restaurant is because there is not enough potential custom for it on her primary route to make one economically viable.

It is nothing to do with the timings of sailings on the route.  On her northbound sailing, teatime/evening meal time occurs during the second half of the crossing, just as it does on the afternoon Ouistreham sailing.  On her usual southbound sailing, departure is too late for an evening meal, but is earlier than the equivalent departure on the Ouistreham route (for which the restaurant is also not open).  Arrival is usually at a time where might be possible to have a civilised breakfast, however (unlike Ouistreham).  Armorique only occasionally runs peak season sailings at the equivalent time of the morning Ouistreham departures, which span lunchtime during the second half of the crossing.

So the comparisons between Roscoff and Ouistreham sailing times are virtually identical.  No argument in terms of sailing times that applies to one route does not apply to the other.  If sailing times warrant a restaurant on one route then it is a logical inevitability that they also warrant one on the other.  And if sailing times on one route do not warrant a restaurant then it is a logical inevitability that they also do not warrant one on the other.

So this is all about economics and volume of traffic, nothing to do with sailing times.

[Cabin-boy]

Given other recent events and as mentioned in a parallel thread, I suspect this work by Wayne Sleeth should actually be entitled 'Oysters Revisited'! Ed

[hf_uk]

Just now, Gareth said:

The reason Armorique doesn’t have a restaurant is because there is not enough potential custom for it on her primary route to make one economically viable.

It is nothing to do with the timings of sailings on the route.  On her northbound sailing, teatime/evening meal time occurs during the second half of the crossing, just as it does on the afternoon Ouistreham sailing.  On her usual southbound sailing, departure is too late for an evening meal, but is earlier than the equivalent departure on the Ouistreham route (for which the restaurant is also not open).  Arrival is usually at a time where might be possible to have a civilised breakfast, however (unlike Ouistreham).  Armorique only occasionally runs peak season sailings at the equivalent time of the morning Ouistreham departures, which span lunchtime during the second half of the crossing.

So the comparisons between Roscoff and Ouistreham sailing times are virtually identical.  No argument in terms of sailing times that applies to one route does not apply to the other.  If sailing times warrant a restaurant on one route then it is a logical inevitability that they also warrant one on the other.  And if sailing times on one route do not warrant a restaurant then it is a logical inevitability that they also do not warrant one on the other.

So this is all about economics and volume of traffic, nothing to do with sailing times.

Yes, you put it more eloquently than me, but we are skirting the same issue Gareth

[hf_uk]

If you want a sailing in the Summer with a restaurant, go on the Thursday PA sailing anyway... that one soaks up quite a lot of the demand for one.

[Gareth]

Yes, I invariably do.  The Saturday departure is also very civilised as it doesn’t arrive until 10am (after PA has left the berth).

[hhvferry]

The difference is more the volumes presumably than the timings. Although that inartful comment from a BF manager that the Plymouth-Roscoff market was "less demanding" should also be remembered. 

[jonno]

For me Armorique is a victim of the economic downturn, if built in 2006 I believe she'd have been fully fitted to the complete BF spec. 

An A la Carte could easily have been accommodated where the self service is now and the self service housed where Le Cafe and the reserved lounge is. BF could even have built a few commodore cabins on deck 8 overlooking the bow and she'd still have more cabins and berths than Normandie.

Personally I like the artwork of both Wayne Sleeth and Karen Silve and think Ed's oysters would look great in the Lady Lair or office (the Man Cave is for manly pictures, jets n stuff). I hope they'll sell reprints onboard.

[David Williams]

2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Given other recent events and as mentioned in a parallel thread, I suspect this work by Wayne Sleeth should actually be entitled 'Oysters Revisited'! Ed

I thought this picture is what the wall on the teenagers room is going to be like after a few months.

[Tregastel]

3 hours ago, Gareth said:

Yes, I invariably do.  The Saturday departure is also very civilised as it doesn’t arrive until 10am (after PA has left the berth).

Me too - not a fan of Armorique (although the cabins are good).

 

[colin]

I have previously pointed out how easy for BF it would be to install a "Magnus Lounge" type area as per the Northlink Hjaltland and Hrossey. Separate off an area stbd side fwd of the self service area, add some decor? and offer table service, a comfy lounge area? and a few frills, albeit serving the same food as available in the self service. Quick, cheap, easy, classy. Last time I think I paid £18 for this with Northlink, and always use it.

https://www.northlinkferries.co.uk/on-board/magnus-lounge/

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by colin

[Nick Hyde]

Why when Bretagne operated the Roscoff to Plymouth route in the 90s, and with the ships before, did they think an la carte was needed then but not now? Have timings really changed that much? Have customer habits really changed that much also?

[jonno]

24 minutes ago, Nick Hyde said:

Why when Bretagne operated the Roscoff to Plymouth route in the 90s, and with the ships before, did they think an la carte was needed then but not now? Have timings really changed that much? Have customer habits really changed that much also?

No they haven't, Pont L'Abbe had a restaurant so too did Quiberon and the latter had two major refits. I doubt you could use the notion that both Bretagne and Quibby were initially brought in to sail to Spain and Cork either as the DFDS ship was solely to cover Plymouth-Roscoff.

[Gareth]

9 hours ago, Nick Hyde said:

Why when Bretagne operated the Roscoff to Plymouth route in the 90s, and with the ships before, did they think an la carte was needed then but not now? Have timings really changed that much? Have customer habits really changed that much also?

As we’ve reached a consensus on, the issue is not sailing timings (whatever BF says). The issue is volume of traffic.

A key difference between the Roscoff route in the 90s and the Roscoff route now is that, now, it is a single ship for the most part operating a single round trip each day.  Back in the 90s it was a 2-ship service, operating 3 sailings in each direction daily (identical to the Caen operation now).  So, back then, the volume of custom was probably there in a way that it isn’t today.

[quibby]

10 hours ago, Gareth said:

As we’ve reached a consensus on, the issue is not sailing timings (whatever BF says). The issue is volume of traffic.

A key difference between the Roscoff route in the 90s and the Roscoff route now is that, now, it is a single ship for the most part operating a single round trip each day.  Back in the 90s it was a 2-ship service, operating 3 sailings in each direction daily (identical to the Caen operation now).  So, back then, the volume of custom was probably there in a way that it isn’t today.

It was more like half the Caen operation (Quiberon did three sailings a day so more than the Armorique does now but her capacity was smaller) and the Val De Loire/Bretagne helped to make Sundays 3 sailings in each direction. It was only in 1993 when the Duchesse Anne did an experiment of being the second Roscoff ship and even then it was only Wednesday to Friday. Caen always had many more sailings than Roscoff in the 1990s.

[Tumnus2010]

Did the Duc have a restaurant? As she served both routes.

Too young to remember..and definitely wouldn't have been allowed in it!