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HONFLEUR - New Build for Ouistreham Route - CANCELLED


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16 minutes ago, TonyMWeaver said:

Honfleur is dead in the water as far as Brittany Ferries are concerned.

That may well be the view being presented for now, but things can change. My point being that until the several thousand tons of hull sat floating actually have a decided future, I wouldn't 100% discount it.

I doubt the current owners particularly want to keep it around as an ornament - somehow they'll want shot of it and may be willing to do that at a favourable price or financial arrangement. It would be in BF's interest to maintain a poker face until such time as something financially attractive was on the table and effectively pick up their custom designed vessel at a heavy discount.

On the flip side, if another operator/owner wants to pick it up and pay an amount BF wouldn't be willing to then so be it.

 

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That may well be the view being presented for now, but things can change. My point being that until the several thousand tons of hull sat floating actually have a decided future, I wouldn't 100% disco

I get the impression we've put more hours into this thread than the German shipyard have into the real ship. Ed. 

And don't forget that the ship's real achievement was the production of zero CO2 emissions, zero waste water and zero satisfied passengers for the whole of the 2019 summer season. Ed. 

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1 hour ago, Jim said:

That may well be the view being presented for now, but things can change. My point being that until the several thousand tons of hull sat floating actually have a decided future, I wouldn't 100% discount it.

I doubt the current owners particularly want to keep it around as an ornament - somehow they'll want shot of it and may be willing to do that at a favourable price or financial arrangement. It would be in BF's interest to maintain a poker face until such time as something financially attractive was on the table and effectively pick up their custom designed vessel at a heavy discount.

On the flip side, if another operator/owner wants to pick it up and pay an amount BF wouldn't be willing to then so be it.

 

Would it be in the yards interest to finish the build then sell her on?

...or are we missing something, do BF own the propulsion specs, I know Chantiers own the patents for the fuel cell loading?

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Before making any ship plans, I would also be waiting to see what the outcome is of the recent EU vote (16/09) to add shipping to the ETS (Emissions Trading Scheme) in 2023 if the IMO does not have a 'good enough' scheme in place by 2021.

Then there is the clean fuel transition. 2050 when we are all carbon neutral is easily in a new ferry's lifetime. A pause now making do would allow BF to see how the land lies (LNG may not be clean enough).

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We nearly got to 100 pages too! :(

Wonder if a  new owner would want to keep the elaborate bespoke bunkering solution, or simplify things. 

Still can't help thinking with all the Stena collaboration, e-flexers, and Cotentin returning... there could be a deal to be done there. Stena have her for a while and then BF could end up leasing her back in a year or so in more favorable times...

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The cost of keeping Normandie going is being asked but BF were going to use her on another route, so the question does not arise, admittedly Le Havre would be a lighter schedule.

As to Honfleur never say never, it might not be on their minds now but as Jim says if they are made an offer they can't refuse? 

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

Would it be in the yards interest to finish the build then sell her on?

...or are we missing something, do BF own the propulsion specs, I know Chantiers own the patents for the fuel cell loading?

But the yard doesn’t own the Honfleur, Siem does, it looks like it was collateral for loans when it sold the shareholding for a nominal amount. The yard is currently waiting for some orders from Siem to give it work ! 

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4 hours ago, TonyMWeaver said:

Honfleur is dead in the water as far as Brittany Ferries are concerned.

People here said that about a certain ferry in Poole - amongst a few other similar things, look how that turned out...😁

She might go to Polferries..🤭😄😉

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1 hour ago, David Williams said:

But the yard doesn’t own the Honfleur, Siem does, it looks like it was collateral for loans when it sold the shareholding for a nominal amount. The yard is currently waiting for some orders from Siem to give it work ! 

Siem's plan is to move the ship from Flensburg. I can't really join the dots as to why the Norwegian company have their hands on the ship. They certainly didn't participate in the funding of Honfleur plus the company they formed to pay for the RoRo's, Seven Yield, only paid for the freight carriers.

Seven Yield as that is the shortest charter term length for the likes of Maria Grazia Onorato etc.

The €56.5 million given to the yard in 2019 was the aggregate final payment for the the RoRo ships built for them. There's no evidence of further financial dealings apart from the sale of their remaining 24% to Sapinda/Tennor.

FSG was classified as a discontinued operation on Siem's 2018 income statement. 

Siem are part of the creditor committee and are prepared to offer funds, believed to be in the region of €55 million in the short term to help FSG secure future builds, maybe Honfleur or build 774 as it's back to being referred to, is the security.

I can really see the ship being given in exchange for the remaining 24% of FSG sold to Tennor  as they only paid €33 million for their majority 76%.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, The Ferry Man said:

The Viking ADCC, very similar as I don't think she was fully fitted out either - certainly didn;t enter service and stayed at the shipyard for a few years

Ah, got you, for a nasty moment I thought something had gone badly wrong with Viking Glory considering the financial position they're in at the moment. Another Silja Europe.

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6 hours ago, Danim24 said:

So there is a pattern.... Honfleur will end up in Canada with the Viking ADCC and Norman Leader 😋

Presumably as the Viking ship was designed for the Baltic her ice-class rating makes her suitable for work in Canada. Honfleur was designed for the channel and that I assume effectively limits where she can and could operate. As I mentioned before, why not lease her to the Tasmanians as they wanted two ships anyway and she could be a stop gap solution?

Ed. 

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8 hours ago, jonno said:

FSG was classified as a discontinued operation on Siem's 2018 income statement. 

Siem are part of the creditor committee and are prepared to offer funds, believed to be in the region of €55 million in the short term to help FSG secure future builds, maybe Honfleur or build 774 as it's back to being referred to, is the security.

I can really see the ship being given in exchange for the remaining 24% of FSG sold to Tennor  as they only paid €33 million for their majority 76%.

In the first half results  Siem said 

In April 2020, FSG filed for provisional self-administration with the local court in Flensburg. The Company had provided construction funding to FSG. A settlement agreement with the custodian of the estate has been reached and became effective in August.  https://www.siemindustries.com/?mdocs-file=4674

in the 2019 accounts Siem said

All shares in FSG were sold during the year but there are substantial loans outstanding from the yard. At the end of April this year, FSG went into self-administered reorganisation. The leadership of the yard by its chairman and management was dysfunctional for a long time. Management of subcontractors on which the yard depended to a large extent, has not been effective. One main subcontractor, Kongsberg Group of Norway was let down by two of its subcontractors which were key to the electric installations and the LNG plants on the RoPax vessels under construction at the yard and who both ran into financial difficulties. https://www.siemindustries.com/?mdocs-file=4649

This also highlights that the electrics and LNG is not complete.
 

 

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18 hours ago, Solo said:

The cost of keeping Normandie going is being asked but BF were going to use her on another route, so the question does not arise, admittedly Le Havre would be a lighter schedule.

I think it does though - finding a replacement for the Le Havre route may be considered an easier option (or at least one where there are more unknowns so a shorter term option is more acceptable.

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20 minutes ago, VikingVoyager said:

I think it does though - finding a replacement for the Le Havre route may be considered an easier option (or at least one where there are more unknowns so a shorter term option is more acceptable.

The Etretat is fine on the Le Havre or a Le Havre/ Cherbourg route. If they want to rest Normandie over the winter, the Amorique will be available

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8 hours ago, David Williams said:

In the first half results  Siem said 

In April 2020, FSG filed for provisional self-administration with the local court in Flensburg. The Company had provided construction funding to FSG. A settlement agreement with the custodian of the estate has been reached and became effective in August.  https://www.siemindustries.com/?mdocs-file=4674

in the 2019 accounts Siem said

All shares in FSG were sold during the year but there are substantial loans outstanding from the yard. At the end of April this year, FSG went into self-administered reorganisation. The leadership of the yard by its chairman and management was dysfunctional for a long time. Management of subcontractors on which the yard depended to a large extent, has not been effective. One main subcontractor, Kongsberg Group of Norway was let down by two of its subcontractors which were key to the electric installations and the LNG plants on the RoPax vessels under construction at the yard and who both ran into financial difficulties. https://www.siemindustries.com/?mdocs-file=4649

This also highlights that the electrics and LNG is not complete.
 

 

Begs the question, if Siem knew how dysfunctional FSG were, why didn't they do something about it when they owned them? At least we now why they got their hands on the ship.

We discussed the set up during the fiasco with WBY, contractors subcontracting work who then subcontracted out again.

Kongsberg were responsible for positioning and navigation, these systems were fitted in Gdansk and tested prior to delivery to Flensburg aka Honfleur. As for the LNG propulsion it was fitted exclusively by Chantiers & Wartsila. This is information received first hand from FSG staff.

The only other vessel FSG have built with LNG propulsion was back in 2016, another RoRo dry bulk carrier, Searoad Mersey II, first of it's kind. The system is very similar to that designed by the Chantiers de l'Atlantique shipyard but was designed and built by Swedish company Cryo AB. fuelling etc was sorted by Bomin Linde based in Hamburg using 7 HGV drive on/drive off fuel cells.

Honfleur is the first LNG RoPax the yard has constructed.

Time for a bit of transparency...

David I distanced myself last year as a member of their staff wanted me to be a whistleblower, it was their motivation in contacting me in the first place to tour the yard back in March 2018. As @Jim and a close friend, a naval architect who works for Knud E Hansen advised I stopped answering the emails.

 

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39 minutes ago, TonyMWeaver said:

Ah... So Siem have paid for the vessel, makes a mockery out of their 2019 shareholder announcement, there's a surprise...not.

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@tarbyonline is reporting on his excellent NI Ferry site that Honfleur is to be towed within weeks from Flensburg to an as yet unnamed port - https://www.niferry.co.uk/honfleur-to-leave-fsg-shipyard-under-tow-within-weeks/. At least things are starting to move forward in this debacle, scrapping her just made no sense whatsoever and someone is going to eventually step in and nab themselves a bargain. I have a feeling that greater clarity on the 'B' word negotiations will be needed before anyone takes the plunge though....unless of course Ed's Tasmanian hypothesis beomes reality.

Chris

 

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