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HONFLEUR - New Build for Ouistreham Route

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4 hours ago, Raik said:

Do you have any inside information on the calculation and pricing of the Siem RoRos? Two of them are still under construction.

I've sent you a personal message with information.

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I have not been reading this topic but got a e mail  off bf stating the new ferry would not be ready for the summer season ,was this expected because they have just added 12 pet friendly cabins to the ferry that is taking its place?it sounds to me they knew it was going to be delayed a while back.

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The 12 new dog-friendly cabins on Normandie were, I think, announced well before the delay concerning Honfleur was made public. Ed. 

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46 minutes ago, nodwad said:

I have not been reading this topic but got a e mail  off bf stating the new ferry would not be ready for the summer season ,was this expected because they have just added 12 pet friendly cabins to the ferry that is taking its place?it sounds to me they knew it was going to be delayed a while back.

Most of your queries can be answered by having a quick peruse of the thread....it makes a good read! 😉

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Let's not get ahead of ourselves and seeing Herr Windhorst as a master magician who is going to weave a financial spell over FSG.

As both Jonno and Paully pointed out, he is the kind of person that [in a previous life] I used to describe as "a controversial investor" or similar terms which made cautious night lawyers fret.

Nevertheless, some of his business ventures have made good profits over several years. So if he can make a genuine profit from the business in the normal course of activities, that is great news.

From the marine engineering viewpoint, FSG itself (as opposed to one or two of its prime suppliers) is a successful business.

The obvious danger, when a financial investor – rather than one from a related industrial or commercial background – moves in, that the business is forced to focus on short-term revenue and profit opportunities rather than long-term sustainability.

Fingers crossed.

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52 minutes ago, kenw said:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves and seeing Herr Windhorst as a master magician who is going to weave a financial spell over FSG.

I think that the main thing from the perspective of this thread (and forum) is that the yard will be solvent during the period when Honfleur is completed.

Who knows what the future holds, he is obviously investing to make money.

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Just noticed this on the BF Site (Honfleur ship guide):

Quote

To keep up to date with progress on the project from steel cutting in March 2018 to delivery in winter 2019

and

Quote

The new ship will take just over a year to complete, before making her debut on the Portsmouth to Caen route in winter 2019.

*Admittedly nothing new as such*

https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/ships/cruise-ferries/honfleur

Edited by The Ferry Man

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Just now, Cabin-boy said:

Perhaps they should change it to "The Plan Unravels" as "The Shipyard Folds".😁 Ed. 

 

Nah, they are flush now that strapping young German Entrepreneur has pumped all of his Euros into it:)

I bet they are spitting and polishing as we very speak!

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Orbiting quite close around FSG I have my own idea about the Windhorst engagement: how much does FSG get paid by BF at the delivery of Honfleur (final payment)?

If receivables would be in the range of say 80% of the contract value (195 mio. EUR) that would be around 156 mio. EUR.

I do not see any risk for the completion of Honfleur. So why shouldn't Windhorst withdraw is 30 mio EUR along with a significant return on invest plus untitled extras and leave FSG go down at the end of 2019?

Where am I misled?

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2 hours ago, JoePol said:

Orbiting quite close around FSG I have my own idea about the Windhorst engagement: how much does FSG get paid by BF at the delivery of Honfleur (final payment)?

If receivables would be in the range of say 80% of the contract value (195 mio. EUR) that would be around 156 mio. EUR.

I do not see any risk for the completion of Honfleur. So why shouldn't Windhorst withdraw is 30 mio EUR along with a significant return on invest plus untitled extras and leave FSG go down at the end of 2019?

Where am I misled?

Welcome @JoePol, an interesting first post. Don't you think Herr Windhorst maybe interested in the financial return on the 62000 gt ship to be built for Irish Ferries and the two 212m, 1800 passenger ferries for TT Lines?

These deals are worth close on €650m.

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Thanks for the warm welcome, Jonno!

There are plenty of reasons why FSG could not show any profit over the last years. The upcoming new buildings (ICG/SIEM Car Carrier/TT) carry similar risks (commercially & technically) than previous projects. 

The ongoing exodus of skilled engineers and experts has sharpened the situation thus increasing the risks.

I'd really like to agree with you but I have my doubts about Sapinda's long term vision in general and their shipbuilding industry expertise. Vision and expertise along with investments in shipyards infrastructure are highly required for turning into the profit zone.

For the trustful and loyal team at FSG I hope that you are right.

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just took a look, a couple of people walked off the car dexk and there were a couple of workmen doing something at the back of the car deck, so certainly some scale of work is taking place.

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43 minutes ago, Stefeni said:

just took a look, a couple of people walked off the car dexk and there were a couple of workmen doing something at the back of the car deck, so certainly some scale of work is taking place.

I think that some welding is going on.

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I am going to stand on the other side off the ball court and say I am not overly impressed with her design, externally she looks like an upgraded version of Armorique for me on not really a fitting 'flagship'.' I personally, would not brand her a 'cruise ferry' as such - for me Pont Aven should retain this status - she is more of a cruise ferry in my opinion..

One thing I like about pre-early 00's new build sis there ample deck space for passengers, some with wrap around decks. One disappointing thing about many new builds seem to have plenty of open deck space but limited access to passengers, with large over hanging sterns.

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The whole concept behind her was always an upgraded version of Armorique, right from the start.  That was the intention.  (And she’s not intended to be a new flagship).

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She’s a work horse designed to go from A to B as cheaply  as possible to ferry freight and also tourists etc , whilst offering a good level of facilities to keep passengers happy for 6 odd hours ,Pont Aven has to cater for a longer crossing so rightly should offer more.

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Armorique, MSM & now Honfleur shout one word from the rooftops... versatility. Multi role, multi port vessels capable of carrying passengers in comfort whilst maintaining a high level of freight capacity. It's the appeal of the RoPax especially on short sea routes. Both MSM and Honfleur may never stray from their route but it doesn't detract from their ability to serve all of the western channel if needs be.

In real terms the only two ships in the fleet which are true cross overs of cruise ferry/Ropax are Normandie & Cap Finistere - less open deck vehicle space and a larger amount of promenade deck. Compare CF with other Superfast's, at the back they don't have superstructure beyond the funnel. Personally I think the E-Flexers are an evolution of this, take a look at the recent images of Stena Estrid, for all of their 214 metres there's not a great deal of open vehicle deck at the stern.

As Neil reminds us Pont Aven is a true cruise ferry designed for the longer sea routes, a floating hotel with onboard facilities which reflect this, I know they're a lot older but only the DFDS ships to Ijmuiden & the P&O's to Zeebrugge offer a similar experience.

Edited by jonno
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I don't think there is much difference between MSM and Normandie in their function - certainly I don't think MSM was designed with the idea of being route flexible in mind, she was designed for a 20+ year stretch on the company's most important trunk route and doesn't, for example, have internal ramps to enable her to operate most of the second tier BF routes.

The Cap Finistere and her sister are similar to the Superfast XI and XII with the general arrangements of the saloons improved in the latter two; all four were designed to be of a high quality but they needed much larger outside decks (and somewhat overscaled bar/dining provision relative to berth numbers) to accomodate hundreds of people sleeping on deck. If any Superfasts offerred a nice overall luxury experience in their original guises it was actually the VII to X which, although they had commensurately smaller superstrucure profiles were rather lovely floating boutique hotels, a bit like the Cap Fin has become by default now that BF run her with about half the number of pax she was designed to carry.

The VII to X were intended to be more freight biased with passengers as the icing on the cake - and certainly no plebs were allowed to sleep on deck. A summer sailing on the Adriatic Superfasts in contrast was (and is on the last remaining example) a great but chaotic and not particularly luxury experience - with half the pax splayed out in sleeping bags on deck, in hallways and in stairwells and Greek waiters chasing out anyone who tries to sleep in the saloons. To move around the ship everyone has to gingerly step over sleeping passengers to get around. The most comfortable passengers are probably those camping out in their motor homes on the upper freight deck.

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If I remember, MSM was fitted with a 130m+ internal hoistable car deck and a midships pivoting access ramp, those at the bow & stern also link the decks above and below, she also has hinged covers to access the lower decks?

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On 28/02/2019 at 21:32, jonno said:

If I remember, MSM was fitted with a 130m+ internal hoistable car deck and a midships pivoting access ramp, those at the bow & stern also link the decks above and below, she also has hinged covers to access the lower decks?

Yup, you're right. Had totally forgotten this: she has a 48m long tilting ramp offset to the starboard side. It would presumably be slow going to permanently fill the upper freight deck using this though. Here it is in the position it's been stowed in pretty much all the time since she was delivered - 

image.jpeg.8628887b1640da6c2ae98959c78bd380.jpeg

 

 

Edited by hhvferry
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