Jump to content
Andy

HONFLEUR - New Build for Ouistreham Route

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Jim said:

 

I do wonder with these videos how recent they are (IE is it really that unfinished!)

Shot over a varying timescale according to BF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

Shot over a varying timescale according to BF.

Yeah, Monday to Friday as they certainly won't be paying overtime for the weekends. Ed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

Shot over a varying timescale according to BF.

Yes a deliberately vague reply from Jane, perhaps Nigel can be persuaded to do a Q&A thread on this Forum, he seems less discreet in his answers !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not so sure.  If they had wanted to avoid giving the impression that the ship will not be ready until 2022 (which I assume they did), then they would have shot a more up to date film.  The fact that they put this one out rather conveys to me that this is all there is to see at the current time.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, David Williams said:

Yes a deliberately vague reply from Jane, perhaps Nigel can be persuaded to do a Q&A thread on this Forum, he seems less discreet in his answers !

Even if he doesn't enlighten us as to when we might actually see her in service, at least he be able to confirm that the desserts on board will be top-notch. Which is a weight off my mind. Ed. 

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jim said:

Interesting to note there's no basement to minimise delays and in turn minimise fuel. Surprised that the extra 1kt adds up to a 15% fuel increase.

I do wonder with these videos how recent they are (IE is it really that unfinished!)

The shots of the bridge where made in Poland, it was fully fitted prior to delivery. Same for the kitchens and cabins.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/02/2020 at 14:32, neilcvx said:

It was @tarbyonline that posted it on Facebook @Fine Whine so credit to him I know he’s slow at posting things on here so I just posted it .

I’m pretty sure going by the booking process BF aren’t 100% sure she will be here in September.

Thanks.  Yeah I'm not on here that often - I'm a busy bee!  

 

I've only skimmed the updates since I was last here so apologies if I am repeating anything.  It appears the yard still isn't in a good place financially and much will rest on the conclusions of the report to be published at the end of the month.  The yard want loan guarantees from the state (the same loan guarantees they've been seeking all along - SIEM financed the building of Leevsten and Liekut) and it appears that the white night isn't keen on putting more of his money in!  Nearly half the workforce has now been sent home without pay to live on state benefits - seems odd for a yard that should be delivering a rather large ferry at the end of the year but doesn't appeared to have even started steel cutting!  Its understandable that they wouldn't want heavy metal workers eating up wages if they were just outfitting the two ships, but there is a tight production schedule to be adhered to.  Coincidence public access has been disabled for the slipway cam?  For obvious reasons nobody wants to go on record but I wouldn't be surprised if Honfleur misses her current delivery date by quite a bit.  As for the Irish Ferries vessel, who knows?  The yard have been saying for sometime that they are renegotiating with customers and suppliers but I don't recall these talks ever being hailed a success.  Irish Ferries have already shown they are prepared to sink the yard anyway.  Brittany Ferries appear to have been more lenient but they aren't a charity either!  Tasmania seem to be slowly conceding that their ships are going to be late.

With regards to production, I believe that unlike with Yeats much of the fitting out is being completed at FSG (Yeats was largely fitted out with much of the work left in theory consisting of pipework and cabling).  Cabins are usually modular these days for the simple reason that its always cheaper to mass produce something that is identical rather than make each one individually.  It also means it can be done in a purpose-built facility off-site if desired.  Before X-mas AVIC/CMJL Weihai and R&M celebrated the production of cabin 888 for the E-Flexer series.  These are produced in a purpose-built climate controlled facility on-site that doubles as a storage warehouse.  After being craned on they are literally wheeled into place on a cradle and connected to the plumbing and electrics already in situ.   Its not really fair to compare the build time of the E-Flexers to other builds IMO though, simply because they are a series.  A series that has now had 6 years intensive design and build work already, work which continues as they try to optimise the construction process and also get ready for the LNG examples!  

On 03/02/2020 at 17:26, David Williams said:

The recent BF videos show that there is a large amount of work to do and I suspect that Subcontractors won’t be giving a lot of credit at the moment.

I did hear that some have been supposedly demanding payment in advance!  Its hard to know how old those videos are though it does seem a bit strange to be releasing old footage just a few months ahead of delivery without saying it is old footage.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BF needs to get out of this.  Preferably acquire Honfleur as-is for a fair price, and then send her somewhere else to be finished off.  Failing that, cancel the order and start again somewhere else.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that once Liekut is handed over, things will become clearer, however I will be surprised if Honfleur is in service this year.

Stena are showing the advantage of building a series of ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, we've seen 'don't trip over the cables' ventilation systems, a 'we've hardly started' bridge, 'put on your dust mask' dining options and 'waiting for the paint to dry' car decks in the videos released so far. Perhaps this week we'll get a view of 'bring your own IKEA Allen key' cabins. The question is how long can they continue to put out 'she'll be here soon' videos before they run out of clips? The destination Honfleur website still says 'Entry into service in March 2020'. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.destinationhonfleur.com/en&ved=2ahUKEwj9gqeT7MHnAhUHkxQKHRrsDFgQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3daE2Y8HqOZeoc3QAFGude

Ed

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks to Tarby for a very comprehensive report of whats going on..or not. Clearly the yard is out of money and almost out of time. If the State loan guarantees don`t appear, and they havent so far in the past, then some serious discussions with Customers will be taking place shortly. Honfleur would have to be towed as a hulk, but to where?..what sort of quality and busy shipyard wants to take over a half finished ship of an unknown quality and maybe responsibility for a large snagging list. No I can`t think of one either. 

  If it gets finished at FSG, then its unlikely to enter service before the 4th quarter of 2020, with BF the de Facto owners of a German shipyard.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Paully said:

If the State loan guarantees don`t appear, and they havent so far in the past

I understand that they can get the guarantees if they can show that the projects are viable and will make money, the fact that they haven’t speaks volumes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting point, Paully, about taking on responsibility for snagging.  Hadn’t thought of that - but it’s not unprecedented for yards to take on part-finished ships to complete.  (The 4 eighties Stena cruise ferries spring to mind).  I wonder how that snagging aspect is normally handled?

BF really should have read the warning bells when the fiasco surrounding WBY unravelled.  It was probably possible then to cancel the order before the keel was laid.  But now they seem to be pouring good money after bad into a bottomless hole to prop up this failing shipyard in the hope that one day they may get their ship.   It really would be better to bail out, get their ship at about half price, and contract out the completion somewhere else.

Or maybe they are waiting for the yard to go under so they can pick it up for next to nothing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The big issue, aside from fit and finish in the passenger spaces, is the propulsion system. Would any shipyard want to get involved in snagging what is an untested and 'revolutionary' fueling system? Ed. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is going on at the Flensburg shipyard? This question is not only asked by the 650 permanent employees, the numerous temporary workers and employees who have contracts for work and who think they are in heavy water.    

We are talking about massive short-time work at the traditional company that is faithfully accompanied by the insolvency specter. Production processes have apparently stalled. Orders in the pipeline are at risk. Deliveries, as in the recent past, could be delayed. With the known (dramatic) consequences.

 

Do you expect the worst? There are no answers, at least not officially. An iron silence at the top of the FSG, and the lake lies still on the west bank of the Flensburg harbor.

100 employees in short-time work 

The worst turbulence must be feared, which would stir up the production water like no launch of a ro-ro ferry, however weighty it could be.

After investor Lars Windhorst ruled the shipyard single-handedly and sent 100 employees into short-time work with his first act, communication and transparency almost completely came to a standstill. But behind the scenes there is apparently feverish work on a new strategy, on a new course for the stricken ship.

Guarantees and loans 

A report is being prepared on the economic prospects, which could secure guarantees and loans if the forecast is positive. News would be announced soon, a spokeswoman for the FSG said on the request of Tageblatt. Otherwise: "No comment."

A wall of silence also currently surrounds the time-honored Deaconess Hospital, after the company, which, like the Flensburg Shipbuilding Society, was financially under pressure from its managing director Christian Peters.

https://www.shz.de/lokales/flensburger-tageblatt/quo-vadis-lars-windhorst-flensburger-werft-in-ungewissem-fahrwasser-id27292987.html
 

  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Neil.  The messages coming out of the yard just get worse.  BF management must be tearing its corporate hair out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/02/2020 at 11:13, David Williams said:

Stena are showing the advantage of building a series of ships.

Surely this is the nub. Nobody gets rich building niche one-offs to a price. You can never work off the inevitable over-spends on further production. At best BF are a customer you might see every ten years always wanting something different - you need oodles of working capital to service these types of clients. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Millsy said:

Surely this is the nub. Nobody gets rich building niche one-offs to a price. You can never work off the inevitable over-spends on further production. At best BF are a customer you might see every ten years always wanting something different - you need oodles of working capital to service these types of clients. 

Is it partially due to the fact so many yards aren’t interested in making small Ferries when they can make so much more by building all the gigantic cruise and have adapted their yards to do that .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you have a point - maybe I should have finished my post by saying these types of clients if they want them at all. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am impressed with the way that the eflexer series is being built with most of the build being standardised but with customisations on length, bow thrusters (the DFDS version) and cabin / vehicle combinations.

I know that enthusiasts obsess with the external appearance of a ship, however the view that most have of a ship is when entering her through the front or rear doors & that is not their best side !

Some of the Dover Calais ships can be said to look ugly, however the external ramps to load cars at the top plus the planned 2 'faced' one are excellent examples of designs that have their end goal in mind which is efficiency which leads to making money.

Assuming that the performance of the eflexers are as good as they seem to be, it would make sense for BF to agree with Stena to continue building the range for the next 10 years and for all new BF ships to be from that range with versions that suit the routes (ie length/ fuel/ cabins etc)

  • Like 3
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bespoke one offs don't really make financial sense these days. Cruise ships are now built in classes with just the internal decoartions and fitout varying.

Lots of operating benefits including standardised machinery, spare part availability, ability to swap engineering and navigation crew between ships without retraining, similar handling and docking characteristics etc. etc. What's not to like as long as the ship can be accommodated in the ports it is intended to serve?

Edited by cvabishop
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, look at Wightlink now. Their Eastern route for years used the four almost identical Saints plus two sister craft foot ferries. Their vehicle operation is now a 'fleet of samples' with different characteristics and vulnerabilities which is perhaps in no small part responsible for the continuing operational problems they are experiencing. I would imagine that the engineering skill set needed to operate VoW is a lot different fron that of the other ships.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Bespoke one offs don't really make financial sense these days. Cruise ships are now built in classes with just the internal decoartions and fitout varying.

Lots of operating benefits including standardised machinery, spare part availability, ability to swap engineering and navigation crew between ships without retraining, similar handling and docking characteristics etc. etc. What's not to like as long as the ship can be accommodated in the ports it is intended to serve?

And their attractiveness on the second hand market once BF decides to replace them.  Ed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...