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Great, the UK pays as the ship was in UK waters or one of our helicopters picked them up. Is that how it works? But perhaps there are other options.

A) The French let them slip through the net so they should pay and take them back.

B) They would have arrived in Ireland if they had not been found so the Irish pay and take them back. 

C) The vessel is registered in Italy so they pay and take them back. Seeing as that may well have been their first point of entry into Europe it would make most sense.

Ed. 

Edited by Cabin-boy
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UK has to pay, and red tape probably says that since they managed to land in the UK the UK must keep them.  And who knows what problems to then have with them down the line...if they become radicalised, for example, or are already entering out of radicalised motives.

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1 hour ago, Gareth said:

....from where what will happen to them, and to receive treatment paid for by whom?

Who cares who pays. They're human beings in need of medical assistance. That should be the only consideration. Have we really sunk so low as to want an answer to those questions.

Edited by G4rth
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Luckily I don’t live in a country that lets people die of hypothermia (yet) because they can’t pay for it, no doubt they will be put in a detention centre and eventually be shipped back to the hell hole they came from of course the cheapest option would be if they had froze to death but hey ho you can’t have everything.

Edited by neilcvx
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9 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Perhaps we should ask them where they want to go. After all if they had locked themselves in a freezer maybe they were heading for Iceland. I know, bad joke, poor taste etc etc. Ed.  

Very.

In principle I agree with G4rth, the fact that somebody is in need of medical treatment is what matters and they should be able to receive it.  But it does need to be paid for by somebody, and I don't think there are many countries (even in the EU) other than the UK where the taxpayer would just be expected to absorb the cost.

But my bigger concern is the what happens next.  Do they get put back on a boat or plane headed for Ireland (as that is where they were going, albeit illegally); do they get sent back to France (as that is where the sailing originated from); do they get sent back to Afghanistan (in which case presumably only after a costly court process, presumably also paid for by the UK tax payer); or is the UK expected to now look after them now that they have landed on our soil?

Edited by Gareth
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They would only be allowed to stay in the UK if they asked for asylum due to them facing death or harm in their home country of course a lot of immigrants get rid of all identity papers to delay the process although if you watch the Panorama program on the BBC iPlayer about detention centres I can’t see why.

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If the Greeks or Italians (or whoever) fingerprinted them at the point of entry then it should be possible to return them to that country. They are not being persecuted by Italy etc so can go back without fear for their lives. If they are not being fingerprinted then the system is not working correctly to keep track of these people and questions need to be raised. It's just too easy to let the people at the end of the chain pick up the responsibility and cost. Somebody at Cherbourg did not do their job correctly. Maybe these two Afghans didn't know which ferry their truck (refrigerated or otherwise) would be loaded on to. Maybe the French are concentrating on trucks for Barfleur and not giving those for Ireland enough attention. This should be (yet another) wake up call but I doubt as usual that anything will actually change. >:(Ed 

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If you want to start blaming people for not doing their job properly a couple of overworked French customs officials probably isn’t the place to start, I personally would have a look at what’s happening in Afghanistan due to the past decades if not generations of uk and us foreign policy perhaps if that had been handled a bit better thingsight not be in the state they are now , I honestly feel Sometimes I’ve clicked on the Daily Mail website instead of the BFe one.

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30 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Very.

In principle I agree with G4rth, the fact that somebody is in need of medical treatment is what matters and they should be able to receive it.  But it does need to be paid for by somebody, and I don't think there are many countries (even in the EU) other than the UK where the taxpayer would just be expected to absorb the cost.

But my bigger concern is the what happens next.  Do they get put back on a boat or plane headed for Ireland (as that is where they were going, albeit illegally); do they get sent back to France (as that is where the sailing originated from); do they get sent back to Afghanistan (in which case presumably only after a costly court process, presumably also paid for by the UK tax payer); or is the UK expected to now look after them now that they have landed on our soil?

I'm glad that you agree that the required medical treatment is the major concern and I didn't really think that you would think otherwise. Would other countries do the same? I'd like to think so but, to me, that's not relevant. Surely the most important consideration is that the UK should do the right thing regardless of what others do. Is their a will within government to address the number illegal immigrants? Yes but only up to a point they have no incentive to do so. If it were otherwise they wouldn't put great effort to raiding takeaways etc., finding illegal immigrants and then telling them they can go away but to report to police station in a couple of weeks time thus allowing a high proportion to disappear again. The likes of G4S, Serco and others make a lot of money from poor government immigration schemes and therefore they are always willing to find a place for a ex ministers or MP's that loose there seats. Incentive for government to improve procedures? Exactly what incentive would that be then?

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Opinions always differ but it’s not hard to find out the cause of the problem if you look at what’s happening in Afghanistan, we could obviously do more to help fight the cause of the problem of course the easy option is to say “it’s not my problem why should I help?”

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And then there are people who say it is not our role to meddle in the internal workings of other countries.  Should we be sticking our oar in everywhere we see a problem in the world (or something that we consider to be a problem)?  And how far back do you go in locating "the cause" of a problem?  These things never have a single starting point, there is always something further back in history that you can point to.

Ultimately, we cannot change history and we cannot solve the "causes" of every big problem in the world.  Best we can do is deal with the here-and-now consequences of other people's decisions.

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I found this post really interesting having watched customs at Ouistreham going through artics and their trailers with a fine tooth comb, the first time I have ever seen this, this summer. I note the way that the post, in a typically British way, started with the financial implications and then swung to the humanitarian side of the situation including what was life like for these people in their home country. It shows the attitude of the average Brit and it nearly always errs to a humanitarian approach to these issues, even if our country cannot really afford to be so generous.

Perhaps if these people were to explain how they managed to get onto the ferry in the first place perhaps a better understanding of this aspect of security could be better addressed, as Neilcxv also said earlier this problem will continue until a way is found to resolve it, but perhaps this argument is for a different post.

I had noted with interest an article on the TV news that Spanish ports are also being targeted by stowaways so the problem appears to be spreading following the tightening of policing around Calais, although I heard from my cousin who has just returned from the Calais region that stowaways and asylum seekers are still a major issue in that area.

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Do you honestly think UK foreign policy hasn’t helped cause the problems in Afghanistan ? Successive UK government seemed happy enough to stick their oar in when it suits them financially or politically we can always do more to fix problems than just deal with the here and now consequences , you can help in a lot of ways financially or morally by not bombing or funding corrupt regimes for example.

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Ah, so that's where history starts then  is it Neil?  That is "the cause" of Afghanistan s problems.  Us.  The fact that we sent troops to help deal with a problem at the time.  It is clearly immaterial what the reason was for sending them in the first place.  I'm sure there would be no problems at all in the country if the Taliban had remained in power.  No, of course not, the only thing that "caused" any problems was that we tried to help.

I think you will find. Neil, that history is a lot more complicated than just trying to blame the UK government for all the world's problems.

But in any case, if that is what you think, then just how do you propose the UK "solves the cause of the problem" now?  It is years since we had any direct involvement in Afghanistan.  Are you suggesting that we should go back in and start running the country for them?!

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I don’t recall blaming the UK government for all the worlds problems but it certainly has helped stop the immigration issue that is currently affecting the UK, the British built their empire sticking their oar in as you put it , it’s also worth noting the benefits immigration has brought to this country particularly to our NHS.

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My point is that problems like Afghanistan do not have a single cause.  They are complex problems with underlying historical causes that can go back decades or even centuries.  I agree that many problems in the world have some roots in our colonial past, but Afghanistan was never part of the British Empire.  In many ways, a lot of Afghan's problems can be traced back to roots that have Russian origin.  You could argue that religion might just have a sizeable role to play in many of the problems in the world too.

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