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joncombe

CI Inter-Island Service

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It looks like the authorities on the channel islands are looking to introduce a passenger only ferry service between the islands during the summer, particularly aimed at the day trip market. Condor are one of the bidders.

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2017/09/27/condor-hopes-to-run-inter-island-ferry-service/

It seems the lack of day trip oppurtunities between the islands since Liberation came in has hit tourism. I hope it happens.

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1 hour ago, joncombe said:

It looks like the authorities on the channel islands are looking to introduce a passenger only ferry service between the islands during the summer, particularly aimed at the day trip market. Condor are one of the bidders.

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2017/09/27/condor-hopes-to-run-inter-island-ferry-service/

It seems the lack of day trip oppurtunities between the islands since Liberation came in has hit tourism. I hope it happens.

Day trips from the UK as well as daytrips TO the UK.  The problem is using just the one boat.  I presume Lib is going to carry on the UK route, I've no issue with her myself, but they DO need a two ship service to and from the UK.  

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£59 just seems too expense in my opinion for a day trip. When I do such trips from St Malo to Jersey they usually come to around €50 per adult so around £45 I would guess at the present rate of exchange. For that you get to Jersey at around 8.30am and leave at around 7pm depending on the tides. That gives you at least 8 hours ashore to do things. These inter-island trips might be able to offer shorter check-in times as there will be no immigration checks but I think they'll still need to check your luggage on the scanner given the current situation. 

If those prices are confirmed then the cost for a family of 4 (even with discounted child fares)  will be close to £200 and that's before you pay for entry to any attractions and on-island transport. I think they would have to bundle the fares with zoo tickets in Jersey or Trident tickets for Herm with Guernsey etc. to make it worthwhile. I've always thought that the crossing time for such excursions is too long and that is what puts people off (along with the risk of seasickness). I believe they would be better off selling packages including ferry + bus + entry tickets and running the ferries from St Peter Port to Greve de Lecq or Ronez quarry on the north coast of Jersey and putting on buses to either the zoo or Gorey or St Helier to save time at sea and on the island and keep the costs down. One bus could do the zoo-Gorey-St Helier and another could do War Tunnels-St Helier. A similar system could be applied on Guernsey if needed. Ed.  

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But HT that doesn't solve the problem of how to provide day trips with enough time spent ashore to attract travellers. The conventional ferries take too long to get there (two hours each way from Jersey to Guernsey and back) so the high-speed vessels are the only viable option for this market. Ed.  

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35 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

But HT that doesn't solve the problem of how to provide day trips with enough time spent ashore to attract travellers. The conventional ferries take too long to get there (two hours each way from Jersey to Guernsey and back) so the high-speed vessels are the only viable option for this market. Ed.  

Indeed!  I was thinking of the connection with the English south coast.  I wouldn't have thought the promoters of a Jersey-Guernsey foot pax connection would have a lot of difficulty locating a suitable craft.  There does seem to be a lot of them worldwide.  But whether they would be very comfortable is another matter.  There have been -- and are -- a number to try out on IoW services.  I recall how bumpy Cowes Express's catamaran was, especially in the bows!

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Well it would be quicker and simpler then Poole harbour at any rate: 7,000 years and an ice age! (And they are still tinkering to get it just right:D) It's just a shame that the 'Challenge Anneka' programme is no longer on TV. Give her a JCB and a stick of dynamite and she'd have a new one ready by tea-time on Sunday. Ed

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On the subject of the new development, I think Condor has got a bit of a cheek saying they want to bid for it.  It is because of their emaciation of services, especially inter-island,  that the proposal is necessary in the first place.

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There are plans to re open the helicopter service from Penzance to Scilly which ran very smoothly for many years. Might that be the answer for a rapid  Jersey - Guernsey link? The distance is not much greater,  but the finance available for investment in the Channel Isles is considerably greater. 

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29 minutes ago, wortley said:

There are plans to re open the helicopter service from Penzance to Scilly which ran very smoothly for many years. Might that be the answer for a rapid  Jersey - Guernsey link? The distance is not much greater,  but the finance available for investment in the Channel Isles is considerably greater. 

Any idea where they'll site the heliport as they were fairly quick building a Sainsbury's on top of the other one?

Is there still an inter Island air service I know there was a lot of shuffling between Aurigny & Blue Islands?

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3 hours ago, Gareth said:

I love how building two new modern-sized harbours on Jersey and Guernsey is being described as "simple"! ;)

In principle it is!  

It is very easy to overlook the fact that many port and harbour installations are not naturally occurring phenomena but at the very least are Nature improved by the Human Race involving civil engineering and such things as moles, breakwaters, land reclamation, quay building and dredging.  For example most, if not all, the modern English Channel ports are the result of this kind of thing.

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29 minutes ago, jonno said:

Any idea where they'll site the heliport as they were fairly quick building a Sainsbury's on top of the other one?

 

Cornwall Council has given permission for a new heliport at Penzance adjacent to the old one and the business plan is assuming 50,000 passengers a year (the old service carried 100,000) .The Isles  of Scilly Steamship Company has been granted a judicial review of that planning decision, but there is a widespread feeling in the area that they are simply trying to protect their own commercial interests. There are on line articles if you want to read up on it.  I remain surprised that the Channel Islands governments and business investors seem so unambitious abut their own transport arrangements.

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19 hours ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

In principle it is!  

It is very easy to overlook the fact that many port and harbour installations are not naturally occurring phenomena but at the very least are Nature improved by the Human Race involving civil engineering and such things as moles, breakwaters, land reclamation, quay building and dredging.  For example most, if not all, the modern English Channel ports are the result of this kind of thing.

Ah yes, the Magic Money Tree! :) 

I was going to say that there are many things that are simple in principle - World Peace, for example!  But enlarging the CI ports would be a huge (and hugely expensive) logistical challenge.  I suspect the CI governments do not have the resources that would be necessary, given the limited land area available, the challenging underwater topography and the huge tidal ranges and currents that the harbours would need to cope with.  Nor is there probably the level of demand for services that would justify building ports that could accommodate modern full-sized ferries.

Much cheaper to just build appropriate ferries to serve the ports that already exist.

 

Edited by Gareth
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Coming back to the fact that Condor is bidding for this.  I'd be interested in the views of CI residents like Nick about what sentiment is in the islands towards Condor over this - as I said previously, I think they have a nerve.  But I looked at what they are reported to have said about their proposed service and I have to say it sounds pretty pathetic.

When I saw the headline article I had assumed that the idea was for some kind of shuttle service between the islands through the day.  But Condor seems to be thinking they will offer an "out in the morning, back in the afternoon" operation.  Does this mean each way?  Or does it mean "out from Jersey, back to Jersey"?  If they really think that proposing one sailing each way per day is all this is about then they have even more of a nerve than I first thought.

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I would agree that some kind of through-the-day shuttle service is what would seem to meet the needs of the situation.  But didn't Condor start this way with an interisland hydrofoil service?  Maybe they should go back to that!

It is a moot point which would be cheaper:- a new port or a new ship.  I would estimate a new carpax ferry with overnight facilities tailored to the limitations of the CI judging by the cost of recent orders is going to cost something like £100 million.  Would a new ferry terminal built at a suitable location cost as much as that?  I am not sure it would.  A good example of what I mean is close by at Roscoff.  This was just farmland with a ferry berth next to a purpose built pier when it started in 1973/4.  The development all around has come since.

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Hi Gareth and others on here.  Yes the general feeling among some people in the islands is that we wouldn't need this new inter island service if we had a Condor service like we did before 2015. In terms of Condor going for the tender some say they shouldn't. We will also soon have a new uber style local airline called "Waves" in our local skies and they promise to radically change the way airlines do business between Guernsey and Jersey.  If this does what it promises the need for this new ferry service may not be great as it is now.  Time will tell.

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12 hours ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

I would agree that some kind of through-the-day shuttle service is what would seem to meet the needs of the situation.  But didn't Condor start this way with an interisland hydrofoil service?  Maybe they should go back to that!

It is a moot point which would be cheaper:- a new port or a new ship.  I would estimate a new carpax ferry with overnight facilities tailored to the limitations of the CI judging by the cost of recent orders is going to cost something like £100 million.  Would a new ferry terminal built at a suitable location cost as much as that?  I am not sure it would.  A good example of what I mean is close by at Roscoff.  This was just farmland with a ferry berth next to a purpose built pier when it started in 1973/4.  The development all around has come since.

HT, CalMac's Loch Seaforth, which has the appearance of a scaled down Honfleur (both built by Flensburger) has only been in service for 3 years and cost £42 million. 116m, 700 pax with only a 4.5m draft and has good loading for cars & trucks. Ideal dimensions for a vessel serving Guernsey & Jersey plus a similar vessel today would possibly cost in the region of £55 million, not so expensive when you consider how much was spent on the Lib'. 

A vessel like that could accomplish 3 or 4 return sailings a day to Jersey.

I think the business is there although the major question for me is whether Macquarie have the appetite for it. 

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17 minutes ago, jonno said:

HT, CalMac's Loch Seaforth, which has the appearance of a scaled down Honfleur (both built by Flensburger) has only been in service for 3 years and cost £42 million. 116m, 700 pax with only a 4.5m draft and has good loading for cars & trucks. Ideal dimensions for a vessel serving Guernsey & Jersey plus a similar vessel today would possibly cost in the region of £55 million, not so expensive when you consider how much was spent on the Lib'. 

A vessel like that could accomplish 3 or 4 return sailings a day to Jersey.

I think the business is there although the major question for me is whether Macquarie have the appetite for it. 

Good idea Jonno!  In that case there might be no point in running the Clipper and Goodwill to both islands on a daily basis. If you already have a shuttle service between the two then you can optimise the freight distribution and the Clipper could serve St Malo instead of one of the islands and offer an overnight or daytime crossing from there to Portsmouth on the days when Bretagne is doing the opposite run. I'd suggest Goodwill does Jersey only as it's the bulk of the freight and Clipper does Guernsey and St Malo. Ed 

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Who remembers Emeraude Line?

They used to run footpax cats inter-island, and also to various destinations on the Cherbourg peninsula, plus a RoRo to St Malo.

They seem to have vanished completely - Wikipedia mentions something about competition from Condor and a sale to another shipping line. Does anyone know what actually happened to cause the demise?

 

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31 minutes ago, Halfcrown said:

Who remembers Emeraude Line?

They used to run footpax cats inter-island, and also to various destinations on the Cherbourg peninsula, plus a RoRo to St Malo.

They seem to have vanished completely - Wikipedia mentions something about competition from Condor and a sale to another shipping line. Does anyone know what actually happened to cause the demise?

 

This is the ferry company whose funnel livery is of the same shape & style as BF's.

Emeraude filed for bankruptcy protection as they owed C.I companies in excess of €4m. I think Condor receiving a vehicle permit was the final nail in the coffin.Their new parent company dissolved Emeraude almost immediately and now concentrate on liquid bulk containment at most of the large French ports plus Spain & Portugal.

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44 minutes ago, Halfcrown said:

Who remembers Emeraude Line?

They used to run footpax cats inter-island, and also to various destinations on the Cherbourg peninsula, plus a RoRo to St Malo.

They seem to have vanished completely - Wikipedia mentions something about competition from Condor and a sale to another shipping line. Does anyone know what actually happened to cause the demise?

 

There was an issue with Condor muscling in on their exclusive contract to transport vehicles between France and the islands. I travelled with them on several occasions. When they stopped, another company (HD Ferries if memory serves) gave it a go with a different type of INCAT vessel but I never got round to testing it as they didn't last long. They did offer more frequent services but I don't believe they could make it work financially.

This parallel thread might provide you with some more info and links :

Ed.  

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1 hour ago, Cabin-boy said:

Good idea Jonno!  In that case there might be no point in running the Clipper and Goodwill to both islands on a daily basis. If you already have a shuttle service between the two then you can optimise the freight distribution and the Clipper could serve St Malo instead of one of the islands and offer an overnight or daytime crossing from there to Portsmouth on the days when Bretagne is doing the opposite run. I'd suggest Goodwill does Jersey only as it's the bulk of the freight and Clipper does Guernsey and St Malo. Ed 

Ed the Clipper could serve all three augmenting Goodwill's freight offer to the islands and both the French & English mainland. This may possibly allow Rapide to load more passenger vehicles during the peak months as the alternate day sailings of the Clipper from St Malo would be able to carry the bulk of the freight which she carries.

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1 minute ago, jonno said:

Ed the Clipper could serve all three augmenting Goodwill's freight offer to the islands and both the French & English mainland. This may possibly allow Rapide to load more passenger vehicles during the peak months as the alternate day sailings of the Clipper from St Malo would be able to carry the bulk of the freight which she carries.

Would Clipper have enough time to make 4 port calls in 24 hours? She does 3 at present but then may not run at full speed across the channel.  Each leg from Guernsey to Jersey to St Malo. would take about 2 hours. I'm sure that what the islanders really want is a regular timetable like BF provides so they know that every day they have a guaranteed crossing and can plan their travel arrangements accordingly rather than having to check each date individually. Ed. 

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Aurigney already exist so why take time on a passenger only ferry. Also no way give it to Condor, no competition and they are not over popular over recent years.  

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