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BF Confirm Charter of 'E-Flexer' - Galcia & Salamanca

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11 hours ago, neilcvx said:

I think part of Yohann’s Tweet has been lost in translation.

I'm not sure it's a translation problem, just a mistake. On his Twitter profile he describes himself as the ' future ex-socialist-mayor' of the small suburb of Brest he represents in Brittany!!!ūüėē Preseumably his constituents have decided they no longer wish to be represented by someone who does know the difference between Irish and Spanish regions as it would suggest he also doesn't know the difference between 'ses fesses et son coude'.¬†Ed.¬†

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2 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

  it would suggest he also doesn't know the difference between 'ses fesses et son coude'. Ed. 

Which in polite terms means ¬ę his bottom and his elbow ¬Ľ...ūü§£

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3 hours ago, neilcvx said:

So how many ships do you need to do 4 road me trips to Spain each week with the eflexers speed?

I think yet again something thing has been lost in transition. It says 5 round trips now, when it's 7 now, if it dropped to 4 round trips you would only need 2 ships which would have time off during the week as well. I wonder if they meant there will be 4 ships on the route, I presume when the Eflexers arrive they could end up with 5 on the route.

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It’s an interesting question and it all depends on what passage time BF is intending to try to get out of them.  It will be a tall order to maintain reliably the golden 24 hour crossing time that BF’s success on this route has been predicated on.  If they can then they should be able to get 3 rotations per week out of each ship.

But I doubt very much they will be able to achieve this.  If they slip the crossing time to, say, 26 hours then I suspect it may be possible to devise a paired schedule (in which two ships swap schedules each week) involving 2.5 rotations per ship per week.  (With each ship calling at Roscoff once per week, enabling north and southbound weekly sailings between Roscoff and Spain).

Any longer than 26 hours then I think 2 rotations per ship per week is the most they will get (to Spain).  This model would effectively mirror BDS’s type of schedule, with a weekly crossing to France for crew change in between Spanish sailings.  In those circumstances the French port would be either Le Havre or Cherbourg.

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Having said that - another possible model, if the crossing time went to somewhere nearer 28 or 29 hours, could be a one rotation every 3 days for each of 3 ships.  That would enable daily sailings in each direction at the same time each day.  For example:

Day 1: 0900 dep Portsmouth

Day 2:  1400 arr Santander; 1700 dep Santander

Day 3:  2000 arr Portsmouth (then ship stays in Portsmouth overnight ready to take the 0900 departure the following day).

Could be quite neat - but raises the issue of crew change, which would have to take place in Portsmouth (or Spain).

Edit: ¬†Where it says ‚ÄúSantander‚ÄĚ above, it could equally be Bilbao. ¬†Could be Bilbao on certain days of the week and Santander on others. ¬†Would need to be Bilbao on days clashing with Connemara at Santander.

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A model based on 26 hour passage time and two ships alternating weeks could go something like:

Week X

Mon: 1000 arr Roscoff; 1100 dep Roscoff

Tues:  0700 arr Bilbao; 1000 dep Bilbao

Weds:  1100 arr Portsmouth;  1400 dep Portsmouth

Thurs:  1700 arr Santander;  2000 dep Santander

Fri:  2100 arr Portsmouth

Sat:  0800 dep Portsmouth

Sun:  1100 arr Bilbao;  1400 dep Bilbao

 

Week Y

Mon:  0600 arr Roscoff;  0700 dep Roscoff;  1800 arr Portsmouth

Tues:  0800 dep Portsmouth

Weds:  1100 arr Santander;  1400 dep Santander

Thurs:  1500 arr Portsmouth;  1800 dep Portsmouth

Fri:  2100 arr Bilbao

Sat:  0800 dep Bilbao

Sun:  0900 arr Portsmouth;  2200 dep Portsmouth

 

Monday would be crew change for both ships in Roscoff.  Armorique comes into Roscoff in between the two of them, arriving at 0800, unloading, and then coming off the berth for the second ship due in at 1000.

Might not have the Bilbao/Santander split quite right, so room for tweaking the Spanish port, but you get the idea.

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45 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Having said that - another possible model, if the crossing time went to somewhere nearer 28 or 29 hours, could be a one rotation every 3 days for each of 3 ships.  That would enable daily sailings in each direction at the same time each day.  For example:

Day 1: 0900 dep Portsmouth

Day 2:  1400 arr Santander; 1700 dep Santander

Day 3:  2000 arr Portsmouth (then ship stays in Portsmouth overnight ready to take the 0900 departure the following day).

Could be quite neat - but raises the issue of crew change, which would have to take place in Portsmouth (or Spain).

Edit: ¬†Where it says ‚ÄúSantander‚ÄĚ above, it could equally be Bilbao. ¬†Could be Bilbao on certain days of the week and Santander on others. ¬†Would need to be Bilbao on days clashing with Connemara at Santander.

This is what me and Cabin Boy suggested a couple of months ago where the query was raised then - albeit I suggested a two-nighter return. 

With Roscoff and Le Havre a no fit (Jonno made this very clear), and Portsmouth to Cherbourg not worth running a regular non-fast craft service to, at most if they required a French port change, it would have to be Cherbourg en route.

A regular daily service at a set time would be attractive to haulers and passengers .

As you say though, which of these run to Santander and which to Bilbao is another question. Perhaps they could alternate? 

 

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Yes, I thought about the 2-night return model - the old Pride of Bilbao schedule.  But I figured that (a) BF would find it quite unpopular to commit every Spain-Portsmouth crossing (or vv) to being a 2-nighter, and (b) it would probably not be necessary as I think the e-flexers will not be as slow as PoB.  The one-night return, with the ship then lying over in Portsmouth, works well.

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Just to take the thought experiments slightly further (but probably slightly into the realms of fantasy):

If BF adopted the 3-ship daily sailing in each direction between Portsmouth and Spain model, then they could also use PA and CF together to provide a daily sailing in each direction between Plymouth and Spain.  Maybe 1600 daily from Plymouth, and 1700 daily from Spain.

If they did this, then it would make sense to consolidate the routes, so that perhaps the Portsmouth service operated exclusively to Bilbao, and the Plymouth service operated exclusively to Santander.

However, whether there would be enough custom to warrant daily sailings from both Portsmouth and Plymouth I don't know.

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7 hours ago, neilcvx said:

So how many ships do you need to do 4 road me trips to Spain each week with the eflexers speed?

There will still be four ships. BF are saying that it's the fifth round trip that will be dropped not the ship total. For me it's the Pelican and her rotation which will be dropped.

Time wise the emphasis is now on emissions, consumption & wasted energy, speed is way down the list especially as the LNG fuelled new builds will only restock in Spain, fuel management will be key. I'm expecting 28 - 30 hour crossing times. I also have a feeling that anything sub 24 hrs will become a thing of the past from Portsmouth which is why I'm hoping Pont Aven is relocated permanently back to Plymouth so the crossing time can still be offered. 

 

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15 minutes ago, jonno said:

There will still be four ships. BF are saying that it's the fifth round trip that will be dropped not the ship total. For me it's the Pelican and her rotation which will be dropped.

Time wise the emphasis is now on emissions, consumption & wasted energy, speed is way down the list especially as the LNG fuelled new builds will only restock in Spain, fuel management will be key. I'm expecting 28 - 30 hour crossing times. I also have a feeling that anything sub 24 hrs will become a thing of the past from Portsmouth which is why I'm hoping Pont Aven is relocated permanently back to Plymouth so the crossing time can still be offered. 

 

Sorry Jonno what you're saying is not making sense, you're not talking about 4 rotations but 4 ships.  Perhaps if you read what you've written you'll see the confusion.

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Just now, Solo said:

Sorry Jonno what you're saying is not making sense, you're not talking about 4 rotations but 4 ships.  Perhaps if you read what you've written you'll see the confusion.

Currently the four ships do five rotations. It'll be four ships doing 4 rotations. 

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1 minute ago, jonno said:

Currently the four ships do five rotations. It'll be four ships doing 4 rotations. 

Don’t understand that Jonno - how do you get to 5 rotations currently?

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Just now, Solo said:

Currently PA does 2 rotations, CF 3, BDS 2, Pelican 2 equals 9 rotations.

Agreed. ¬†Plus 2 from Cork. ¬†Is the ‚Äú4th ship‚ÄĚ in the current list meant to be Pelican or Connemara?

The figure of 5 rotations per week at the moment makes no sense.

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Ok, I’ve re-read the press release that Jonno referenced, and I think I’ve worked out the confusion.

The context of the 5 rotations per week figure was after discussion of the inefficiencies of ‚Äúthe current ships operating to Spain, Cap Finistere and Baie de Seine‚ÄĚ.

I reckon that what is being said, therefore, is purely in the context of replacing CF and BDS.  In other words, the 5 rotations that those two ships currently provide will become 4 by two replacement ships. (And, by implication, Pont Aven sailings continue in addition to those, but not mentioned as not part of the change).

If that’s right, then that must mean that CF and BDS will be replaced by 2 eflexers which each run to Spain twice a week on schedules similar to BDS current model.

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What the plan is for the third e-flexer, goodness knows.  The press release implies not UK to Spain but somewhere to Spain.  You’d think that must mean Cork, but for the doubts about whether the ferry would fit the berth.

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Sorry as the thread is about Galicia and Salamanca I just assumed that it was a discussion regarding the replacement of CF & BDS but yeah I do trend to waffle and wander!

To clarify my thinking, overall I believe BF still want to maintain the frequency hence the third E Flexer from Portsmouth replacing Pelican with the added attraction of of a further 1000 beds

The whole service having 8 rotations 12000 lane metres & 5400 beds compared to the current 9 rotations 8600+ lane metres & 3864 beds.

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Thanks Jonno that makes more sense. Having spent money on CF for scrubbers would they want her to leave the fleet?  Could they not move her to Plymouth, 3 trips to Spain and 1 to Roscoff, freeing up the PA to do more runs to Cork thus improving the Irish offering.  I know that would mean us who sail from Plymouth perhaps losing out on the quality of ship but getting extra choice of sailings.

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Every ship is for sale at the right price but as Cap is one of the few ships BF actually own I doubt she’s going anywhere anytime soon.

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Just now, Solo said:

Thanks Jonno that makes more sense. Having spent money on CF for scrubbers would they want her to leave the fleet?  Could they not move her to Plymouth, 3 trips to Spain and 1 to Roscoff, freeing up the PA to do more runs to Cork thus improving the Irish offering.  I know that would mean us who sail from Plymouth perhaps losing out on the quality of ship but getting extra choice of sailings.

BF have said that they wish to explore the idea of fitting her with hybrid engines. To me that suggests that BAI have plans for her which is why I've highlighted the Irish - French gap left by Oscar Wilde - which for me was a very short sighted decision - or exploring a Rosslare - Spain route as this is by far the busiest and most popular port outside of Dublin for accompanied freight.

I'm suggesting these as BAI, Bretagne. Angleterre. Irlande. SA. own and operate her and is separate from the two societies.

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 CF would totally uneconomical to operate on the UK-France services, she needs routes where the cost of running her is justified by the speed she achieves.  Ireland - France is an interesting suggestion Jonno.  Other than that, or my Plymouth suggestion, if BF owns her then BF would achieve some much needed cash flow by selling her.

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16 minutes ago, Gareth said:

 CF would totally uneconomical to operate on the UK-France services, she needs routes where the cost of running her is justified by the speed she achieves.  Ireland - France is an interesting suggestion Jonno.  Other than that, or my Plymouth suggestion, if BF owns her then BF would achieve some much needed cash flow by selling her.

It might help finance another new build this time for StMalo.

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1 hour ago, neilcvx said:

It might help finance another new build this time for StMalo.

Or a couple of smaller ships for the CIs if BF do takeover Condor's operations. And related to what you said in the other thread, FSG might have slots available to build them if they lose the IF contract. They did build a smaller ferry for CalMac so have experience and a design which might be adaptable if they can scale it up. Ed. 

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13 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Or a couple of smaller ships for the CIs if BF do takeover Condor's operations. And related to what you said in the other thread, FSG might have slots available to build them if they lose the IF contract. They did build a smaller ferry for CalMac so have experience and a design which might be adaptable if they can scale it up. Ed. 

At least the smaller ferry they built for Calmac has stopped breaking down now.

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