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Andy

Stena purchase 'Hammerodd'

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I thought the main reason for the current timetable, a freight only evening service from Portsmouth to Channel Islands, was because that was the busiest for freight? Therefore, Commodore Goodwill is better suited to that schedule. If Hammerodde had been purchased to take over that schedule, then the additional vehicle deck would have been well utilised, allowing all freight to travel but still accommodating private vehicles. 

As for the length increase, it's a 5 Metre increase and make her marginally longer than Commodore Clipper. If a draught of 5.6 Metres is too much, then maybe it's time the Channel Islands started looking at improving port infrastructure. They are as much to blame for the limited service options available. 

Edited by Manannan

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11 hours ago, RickOShea said:

Is the issue that the Hammerodde's current dimensions make her unworkable for one or both of the Channel Island ports?

I stand to be corrected on this but doesn't Hammerodde's extra vehicle deck require a doubledeck linkspan.  I'm not sure if a lift or ramp was included in the modification work.  Of course two tier loading and discharging utilising a double deck linkspan will greatly speed up operations but at the moment neither Condor's PIP Berth 5 nor the CI ports have such a facility.

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14 minutes ago, hhvferry said:

The Hammerodde is reported to be going for as little as Euro 22m which, even though she is smallish , seems like a good price.

Maybe Stena are going to have to meet a not inconsiderable bill to get the extra deck removed in order to restore some versatility to the vessel.

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From the photos and deck plans available online it looks to me like she has just one stern ramp and two internal ramps to get the vehicles up to the higher decks. Ed

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I wonder which company in the Stena Line group is actually buying Hammerodde.  If it's Stena RoRo she could be available for charter. Thus an opportunity for Condor -- if they are interested!  But I don't suppose they are!  It seems from what's been posted so far in this thread that this retrofitted upper vehicle deck makes the vessel unsuitable for CI use apparently.

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I have seen Hammerodde load at a single linkspan so clearly has internal ramps to all levels.

Industry gossip says she is destined for use by Stena Line itself.  Stena RoRo always buy ships and handle modifications - for example Superfast X.

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3 hours ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

I wonder which company in the Stena Line group is actually buying Hammerodde.  If it's Stena RoRo she could be available for charter. Thus an opportunity for Condor -- if they are interested!  But I don't suppose they are!  It seems from what's been posted so far in this thread that this retrofitted upper vehicle deck makes the vessel unsuitable for CI use apparently.

I think there's only been one poster who has asserted this?

The additional level is a third deck, not a second one and is accessed from the original upper freight deck - which like the Clipper is in turn accessed from the main deck as the ship's regular berths in Ronne and Koge are single level only. So there would be no need for modification for her to operate CI routes, assuming her draught and the bit of length added during the rebuild were OK.

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Is there any possibility that Stena might be interested in tendering for the CI inter-island contract? The vessel might be used to offer a Jersey-Guernsey link for the time-being and then become part of a larger plan to take over the Condor contract at some point. Condor won the 10-year exclusive contract in 2014 but the States of Jersey do I believe have a get-out clause if service levels drop below what is acceptable. If that were to happen they would have to find a replacement company and vessels to manage the routes and Stena would then already be well-placed to take over by simply acquiring Rapide and Clipper from Condor. Ed

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I see from the Marine Traffic website that Hammerodde now has a length if 129.9 metres - still within the limits of the Channel Islands harbours. The ship was originally around 124.9 metres. I'm not sure whether the draught is OK or not for the ports. While she also has more cabins than Clipper she has less berths - as many on the Danish ship are one or two berth but this could be sorted by installation of bunk beds.

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Also from what hhv ferry says the extra freight deck would be no problem - in fact it could be a big benefit capacity wise.

Condor may not be keen to purchase because of the costs involved in purchase, additional crew costs for what would also bow be a "hotel services" operation, the need to alter the outward the existing Goodwill sailing schedule to be more passenger friendly (more convenient arrival times), capacity issues with freight taking priority on the outward service (as opposed to cars) and if this service were to be popular - taking custom from the fast ferry service.

 

 

 

Edited by Nick Hyde

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Draft is only really a secondary issue to the big constraint in the CI which is length.  Provided the draft is such that the vessel can sit on the dredged berth, particularly at St Helier, through LW Springs then she will be able to operate to the islands in principle.  The draft factor is more to do with how much disruption would there need to be to sailing times when arriving or departing at the bottom of the tide.  There is no vessel that can enter or depart St Helier at all states of tide - they are all subject to tidal variation in sailing times.  The question is more, therefore, how much variation in those timings would be necessary.

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Yep Gareth sailing times and the willingness to alter the arrival times are key.  What I do know is that we desperately need a late evening departure from the UK. 

Sorry I've brought this thread to the Channel Islands but when I saw this ship had been sold to someone else other than Condor I had to comment. Also sorry for typos in last message - was writing on the go on my smart phone and now I can't edit the last post for whatever reason.

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4 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Is there any possibility that Stena might be interested in tendering for the CI inter-island contract? The vessel might be used to offer a Jersey-Guernsey link for the time-being and then become part of a larger plan to take over the Condor contract at some point. Condor won the 10-year exclusive contract in 2014 but the States of Jersey do I believe have a get-out clause if service levels drop below what is acceptable. If that were to happen they would have to find a replacement company and vessels to manage the routes and Stena would then already be well-placed to take over by simply acquiring Rapide and Clipper from Condor. Ed

Stena, of course, are not that far away in Cherbourg.  When they took over the Celtic Link operation there were rumours they were interested in a return to the English Channel.  Of course this hasn't happened and Stena do seem to have a good relationship with BF who may well have not welcomed such a development.  As taking over Condor eventually could be seen as a return to the Channel through the backdoor and maybe compromising their good relationship with BF one might doubt if Stena would do this.

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As I said above, I have heard that Stena have a specific use planned for the ship (believed to be either replacing the GUTE on Karlskrona  - Gdynia or as the second ship on Grenaa - Halmstad) so I wouldn't get carried away thinking about the ship appearing on Channel Islands routes with Stena, Condor or anybody else.

 

Though, as said by others, it is understood Condor considered buying the vessel and rejected proceeding.

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5 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Is there any possibility that Stena might be interested in tendering for the CI inter-island contract? The vessel might be used to offer a Jersey-Guernsey link for the time-being and then become part of a larger plan to take over the Condor contract at some point. Condor won the 10-year exclusive contract in 2014 but the States of Jersey do I believe have a get-out clause if service levels drop below what is acceptable. If that were to happen they would have to find a replacement company and vessels to manage the routes and Stena would then already be well-placed to take over by simply acquiring Rapide and Clipper from Condor. Ed

Ed, the contract signed in 2014 was non-exclusive. This is from Senator Alan McClean in July of that year...

He said: "The new ramp permits, when issued, will be non-exclusive. A competitor that may wish to operate will have to provide a similar service to the incumbent provider.

"Any bona fide ship operator can apply, at any time, to run a similar service and the harbour master will be required to give them consideration."

The service level get out clause can be triggered from 2021.

Paul Luxon of Guernsey's external transport group said that they have no mechanism in the island to provide a guaranteed licence. They have a memorandum of understanding which matches the Jersey contract.

Edited by jonno

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Thanks for correcting me on the contract details, Jonno. So that means that Stena could be in a position to challenge Condor's position at any time but if the States decide to enforce their get-out clause in 2021 then another operator could potentially be interested. And an operator with a compatible vessel and a good reputation would clearly be in a prime position to take over. Ed

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2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Thanks for correcting me on the contract details, Jonno. So that means that Stena could be in a position to challenge Condor's position at any time but if the States decide to enforce their get-out clause in 2021 then another operator could potentially be interested. And an operator with a compatible vessel and a good reputation would clearly be in a prime position to take over. Ed

Indeed sir. Although it may be more realistic for a group such as Stena to buy Condor and throw their weight into that rather than offer a competing service.

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