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ross brown

New cruise Ferry Line to New York ?

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Hi Guys.

Not sure where to put this as its a bit off topic!! Anyway here goes. 

I always think about it and cant really see why it would not be possible to have a cruisr Ferry service across the Atlantic to New York or a port in America! But a Uk company running it.

We are well hopefully pulling out of EU so that should not effect us too much thankfully . But im sure they will try !!!

We as a country need to look at new ideas and im sure i for one would love to drive off in America in my own landrover or my campervan and tour America :D. Instead of flying over there !!

Yes i know it would need alot of investment and new laws for control etc but it must be possible. Plus all the freight too that would use it would be massive and im sure in time over a few decades it could end up something like Bf ?

We need to keep close to America and this would help our trading massively.  I dont know if there is any cruise ferries out there that could do this trip in 4-5 days ? 

I know Bretagne could handle her self in the rough seas but she doesnt have the speed to do it in 4-5 days ? Unless re engined like the Qe2 but that wont happen ofcourse. We could always buy back our beautiful Qe2 and turn her into a cruisr ferry !! If only !! Wont happen ofcourse.

Only a new build something based on the Qe2 for sea keeping and speed but with the capacity obviously for cars, freight etc. I think this idea needs to be a UK one with UK investment. If only i was a billionaire i would love to try put this across just like Bf did all those years ago and now look at them. I know its on a bigger scale but with the right investors and a little government backing "dont hold your breath on goverment help" im certain this would be great for our country and show us as a true strong nation which we was once. I know funds are tight now but with investment and backing by large companies it could happen. 

Let me know you thoughts guys.  I know its a long shot but you never know bf could always be interested he, he !! Doubt it though, i would prefer this to be a British idea :D

I guess you could run it from portsmouth as everything is already there. 

Right lets see if im crazy or you think its a good idea. 

Thanks.

 

Ross. 

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It would be good for us yes but how many would really use it?  You say about freight but why would you transport a truck all the way across when you can just lift a container off the back on to ship and then put it on a lorry the other end and would you have a driver doing nothing for 4 or 5 days?  Can you imagine all the American motorhomes coming here and getting stuck on our roads.

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Hi solo. 

Yes i see your point about the freight but i never mentioned about having trucks on there maybe there could be a few but mostly containers i meant. But im sure there would be companies who would send trucks over there especially for special cargo and loads. But im sure truck companies over here would love to bring goods back over though so maybe them trucking in America would still be popular for uk trucks. It would certainly open up many new markets for trading though.

 I see your point about American motorhomes but thats the whole point its revenue to our contry and would be the same for America  if we were to travel over there  too with our motorhomes, cars, caravans etc. Its about opening up the continent like we did with Europe and im certain this would be a massive hit once it gets started.

Its just the ship which is the issue. We need a minimum 50,000ton - 70,000 ton atlantic deep sea liner ship which can carry cars, trucks etc and is fast with a max speed of around 32-34knots. I know it seems like a dream but its certainly not impossible.

We need something like this for our country and America to get closer and make our future stronger together. 

Edited by ross brown

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The service for shipping vehicles exists.  Do an internet search for Seabridge - a company which already ships motorhomes to USA and worldwide on Ro-ro vessels - admittedly not cruise ferries, but you can get your vehicle across (at a price) and there are blogs on line from people who have done it 

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Can't see the logic really. Our trucks probably don't meet US regulations and theirs are too big and heavy for UK roads. People who want to travel to and from the US fly in a matter of hours and containers for freight are carried on dedicated ships built for the purpose and using automated port facilities.

OK, so the Queen Mary 2 does transatlantic crossings but she basically only carries tourist traffic. As Solo says, it is totally uneconomic to have commercial passengers sitting idle for days on end.

No point in taking cars 3,000 miles either when you can fly and rent at either end and the cars you use will conform to local regulations and have the steering wheels on the correct side. My next door neighbour emigrated to Australia and enquired about shipping his car out there as they drive on the left like us. Apparently it would have only cost £600 to put it in a container but it would have been declared unroadworthy in Australia and cost a fortune to adapt it.

You also talk about a 32/34 knot ship for which the fuel costs would be horrendous, probably three times as much as a container ship doing 22 knots or so.

I don't think this would be a runner I'm afraid!

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Why on earth is it a great idea to cut trade with the EU (just 20-odd miles across the Channel) but to have closer links (already too close, in my view) with a country whose leader doesn't seem to share any of our European moral values and which is 3500 miles further away? Does the OP have any idea of the difficulties involved in achieving a trade deal with the USA (TTIP would have been dreadful)?

Isn't it obvious that anyone who thinks that the EU removed any of the UK's sovereignty (which the government has said it never did) would have a shock when the USA dictated terms that would be much more restrictive?

Apart from that, is there room at Portsmouth? Wouldn't either Plymouth or Bristol be a better departure base (assuming appropriate facilities either there already or to be installed there)?

I'm afraid this is non-starter, for reasons already given in previous replies.

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2 hours ago, neilcvx said:

Absolute nonsense in my opinion so far fetched it’s hardly worth discussing let alone the assumptions about having to keep close to America.

I think keeping close to America is a brilliant thing which we have done for 100's of years.  We have been allies for a long time. Anyway...... 

I never said cutting off the Eu but just saying doing this would open more doors and trade deals plus tourism in our country and America. 

I undertand people's points i do, im not saying it will be better then whats already in place for shipping products etc or to even compete but its another option to consider which would be popular and create trade. We need options for Brexit. Its like people still have the option to fly but millions of people still sail on cruise ferries so the option for it is certainly there.

I think Trump is a good man he speaks the truth and its not what people want to hear nowadays , we need to stick with him and his country considering how Europe are being with us right now its appalling how they treat us. Dont forget if it wasn't for the Uk and America Europe wouldnt exist but they never appreciate that. All our granddads fought the battles and most never returned like mine !

I understand having a vessel go at those speeds 30-34knots is expensive but its something which has been done for decades before and easily possible. Keeping the crossing time down to just  4 -5 days is something which would be a selling point.

I understand there are issues with the cars regulations etc but that could be sorted easily enough. Having the wheel on the wrong side is no issue for me and thousands of other people too.

Their trucks are lighter then ours anyway they dont pull a standard weight of 44tons which we do, its much less so thats no issue. 

 

But i understand this alll seems far fetched but is it really ? We are a island we need to adapt to new ideas for our future with brexit as i for one i know europe has never treated us as part of the Eu club and they are sure dam to make us fail if they can just to prove Brexit is a failure !!!! It wont fail its certainly the best thing thats happened to our counry. It will be hard to start with i dont deny that, that's why we need ideas like this to make us stand out as a country. We are a island so need to make deals all over the world with what ever new ideas that can work.

 Bf done it with just farmers over 40 years ago yes i know along time ago but there were options in place before them but they still made a impact its not massive but they have a certain market now which would be the same for this idea.

  Sometimes you Have to look beyond the single rail track and move off it. Im not being awkward but just want our country to try new ideas for our future. Ofcourse we still need to trade with EUROPE never said that but we just need new ideas.

Plus if we could build cruise / liner ferries in our country think of all the work it would create we have the skills we just need to use the old ship yards again it is possible but people think we cant do it !! Just look at what we just built the HMS Queen Elizabeth. We are amazing ship builders lets make our country great again. 

 

Thanks for the comments though guys its really great to hear what people think. 

 

Ross. 

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It always seems to be me who points this out but Portsmouth ferry port is not capable of being infinitely expanded.  Would there be the capacity for a further major operation?  I doubt it. It's no secret BF's trailer service to Spain is based at Poole because there's no room for it at Portsmouth.  Will having to base such a service as is proposed here elsewhere than Portsmouth have any effect on its commercial viability?  But maybe the promoters of such a scheme will have to think of somewhere else in any event.

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I flew into NY a couple of years ago, and it took a good few hours to get out of the Airport - could you imagine how long it would take to get out a port in America? Would probably make the queues in Dover look short.

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ACL's con-ros also take the occasional motorhome from Liverpool across the Atlantic (the owners fly) and there are opportunities for freighter travel. That, along with cruising on QM2 and occasional positioning cruises on other ships, is probably enough to sate the passenger demand. Certainly the myriad seafreight options would make the economics of such an operation impossible.

The idea of the Spirit of Farage crossing to New York is somewhat frightful as well - if you think Europe are treating us unfairly (!) then I wouldn't raise your hopes too much for getting too much out of an nationalist President who doesn't do nuance.

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Hi cvabishop.

 

Yes mate i have worked pretty much all over the world being involved in liquid nitrogen pumping offshore. Worked alot in America, all of Europe, Africa, Dubai, Brunei, Australia, Vietnam  etc. Have family in Australia and my half Brother lives in California near Long beach where the beautiful Queen Mary is, he used to live in Florida too. So been alot around America especially to see the Qeen Mary and certainly love their culture.

I dont work away anymore im 32 now so getting older Lol  and have a little girl of 3 1/2 now but love touring Europe and America. But never crossed the atlantic im afraid which i would love to do, such a shame i couldn't have done Southampton to New York on the gorgeous Qeen Elizabeth 2 only seen her on the key side but im not so keen on the Queen Mary 2 but she is still the best and only modern ocean liner we have today. 

So yes travelled alot and from speaking to alot of people in America especially around New York  they would love a cruise / liner ferry service. They like us as a country / Nation and we should make this effort i think to bridge the gap. 

I guess you could always make a special ferry docking area in Southampton if space in portsmouth is crowded but surely when p&o were in Portsmouth it was even busier? 

Hope this makes you understand i love travelling cvaishop and certainly have been around not just stuck in sunny Norfolk all my life :D

I know you have said you have sailed on QM2 im very jealous i must say. Lucky man, maybe i will oneday soon 

 

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There’s no bridge to gap with America I can fly direct from Edinburgh to NY for under £200 each way with Norwegian there’s just no feasible way a cruise ferry could be profitable it would cost a fortune in comparison to the cost of the flights I mentioned.

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Ross,

Basically, as said above:

Business travellers can get to New York in around 8 hours by plane so why would they conceivably want to spend 5 days getting there?

Containerised freight is already very efficiently and economically handled by existing operators - how would a transatlantic 'cruise ferry' improve on that?

Personal vehicles can almost certainly be hired at either end of the route for less than it would cost to actually transport them so where is the advantage?

Anyone putting money into a venture like this will almost certainly lose it.

Whether the UK leaves the EU or stays in, Europe will remain our major trading partner and we need to ensure that our best interests are secured in that respect. Increased trade with the USA is a peripheral issue at best. I agree that individual Americans are friendly and well disposed to the UK but I don't think that is, or really ever has been, a view shared by the US political class who have frequently been quite hostile to the UK dating back to WW1 and after.

Not quite sure why Trump is considered to be a 'fine man' when you take into account his well documented misogyny, racism, adultery, untruthfulness, crooked financial practices, disloyalty to associates, filthy language, narcissism and other unpleasant personal traits. OK, he speaks his mind but what comes out is frequently not very nice at all and often incorrect. Somewhere along the line he might make the occasional correct decision but you shouldn't need someone with all that to achieve what few positive results he has done. Indeed I could probably do it all myself! :D

Personally I am not in favour of a United States of Europe but a common trading bloc is something different. It is a pity that the UK could not have concentrated its efforts into changing the system from within as I think there would have been some support within the EU if our politicians had not been so inept and incompetent.

I have travelled quite extensively in recent years but feel far more at ease in Europe, Canada and New Zealand than I did in the USA which seems to be quite an alien culture in many respects (please ensure your firearms are packed in your hold luggage'!)

If you get the opportunity, do travel on QM2, it's not actually all that expensive for what you get and an experience that you will not forget. I remember seeing the old Queen Mary at Southampton many times when she was in service and we stayed aboard her in Long Beach back in 2001 after which we got caught up in the 9/11 panic but that's another story.

Colin

Edited by cvabishop
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Jon Soppels books title sums up our relationship with the USA “if only they didn’t speak English “ in other words Americans are very very different from us in a lot of ways we just happen to speak the same language which doesn’t mean we’re similar in other ways.

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34 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

There’s no bridge to gap with America I can fly direct from Edinburgh to NY for under £200 each way with Norwegian there’s just no feasible way a cruise ferry could be profitable it would cost a fortune in comparison to the cost of the flights I mentioned.

Thats a fair point but people can fly to france and Spain for peanuts but again millions of people still sail on BF paying out a small fortune compared to flights ! 

It comes down to personnel choice and shows that all people are different and will choose other options if they are available. 

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Apart from the obvious impracticality of the idea I think the idea of a special relationship with the USA is a myth put about by public servants and some politicians and of course the BBC who are never kowingly understaffed there. 

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Back to the business of shipping a Motorhome to NorthAmerica on a ro-ro ship. For anyone planning on touring over there in their own Motorhome for an extended period it might be a cost effective thing to do.  Go to wandering footsteps.com for a personal account  from someone who did just that. 

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Apart from the obvious impracticality of the idea I think the idea of a special relationship with the USA is a myth put about by public servants and some politicians and of course the BBC who are never kowingly understaffed there. 

Yes, I agree. The 'Special Relationship' has always been very one sided. A lot of UK people like to believe in it but it is not really reciprocated where it matters and never has been.

Two countries divided by a common language as it has been described.

After WW1 American military planning was prioritised on a possible war with the UK believe it or not!

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5 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

After WW1 American military planning was prioritised on a possible war with the UK believe it or not!

That’s interesting.  What was the driver of that perceived scenario?

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Thats a fair point but people can fly to france and Spain for peanuts but again millions of people still sail on BF paying out a small fortune compared to flights ! 

Yes you can fly to Europe for peanuts if you don't mind antisocial flight times but frequently it will cost you an arm and a leg to get back at a reasonable hour.

When you compare more civilised arrangements and the fact that you can take your car over to the continent (just overnight and not 6 days away) the costs look a lot more reasonable.

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