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Cork to Santander Route to Launch in 2018

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NEWS: The Official Press Release regarding the new Ireland - Spain route can be read here. 16/01/18

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1 hour ago, RickOShea said:

I think that's largely how things are going to look - especially as the Spanish press revealed the Santander departure times. 

I would say though that 4 hour turnarounds should normally be allowed for a Visentini, you want to work on the (happy) basis of the ship being full and also having a lot of unaccompanied onboard.

Thanks Rick.  Yes, I worked on 4 hour turnrounds in my earlier version.  But just couldn't make it work with 4 hours every time if the snippets that we think we know about are true (well, not without a couple of highly anti-social arrival times).  That's why I wonder if some of the parameters might not be as we have been led to believe.

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5 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Was just perusing the BF Spanish website to see if there was an sign yet of any information about the new route.  Came across this page:

http://www.brittanyferries.es/rutas-y-horarios

Spot the time warp in the "Santander-Plymouth" picture top right.......!

(But don't tell Andy......too much excitement isn't good for him!) ;)

I think a lot of the media on the BF websites seems a little dated. I would hope to see lots of new shiny high-res images when they get a new website!

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3 hours ago, hf_uk said:

I think a lot of the media on the BF websites seems a little dated. I would hope to see lots of new shiny high-res images when they get a new website!

I'd heard a rumour there was an update to be done a little while ago... hopefully we might see something before too long.

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25 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

And has been for a wee while, or so I've been led to believe.....;)

Chris

Another Chris told me that last year or the year before I forget now.

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1 hour ago, Fine Whine said:

And has been for a wee while, or so I've been led to believe.....;)

Chris

Pretty much. There are a lot of exciting things being or going to be done. Although probably not as exciting as this (only one springs to mind).

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8 hours ago, Gareth said:

Allow me to indulge in a revised possible timetable, knowing the parameters we now do (28 hour crossing time, Sunday and Thursday departures from Santander, Chris' intel about Tuesdays in Roscoff; I've also assumed a slightly extended, to 14 hours, crossing time to Roscoff).  It's not ideal with some of the arrivals and departures, but it's all I can come up with fitting around the parameters we know.  Given what it results in, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those parameters are not quite right:

 

Monday:  1500 arr CORK;  1830 dep CORK

Tuesday:  0930 arr ROSCOFF;  1230 dep ROSCOFF

Wednesday:  0530 arr CORK;  0800 dep CORK

Thursday:  1300 arr SANTANDER;  1600 dep SANTANDER

Friday:  1900 arr CORK;  2300 dep CORK

Saturday:  At Sea

Sunday:  0800 arr SANTANDER;  1200 dep SANTANDER

According to todays Irish Examiner the departure times ex Cork for Spain are Wednesdays 11am and Fridays at 1030pm

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On 16/01/2018 at 06:46, Cabin-boy said:

This has all happened very quickly with no leaks or rumours despite a lot of forum members having inside knowledge of BF's workings. 

 

This was kept very quite at BF towers and came as a surprise to most. It was announced after this article was published I'm pretty sure.

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21 minutes ago, ccs147 said:

According to todays Irish Examiner the departure times ex Cork for Spain are Wednesdays 11am and Fridays at 1030pm

Well something’s not right then.  An 11am from Cork on Wednesdays, a 4pm from Santander on Thursdays, and a 28 hour crossing time, are not compatible with each other.  One of those must be wrong.

It would be better if the Cork departure WAS at 11am because then the arrival from Roscoff could be at a more civilised time.

I’m beginning to wonder whether my initial estimate of 26 hours for the passage time might be more accurate.

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17 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Well something’s not right then.  An 11am from Cork on Wednesdays, a 4pm from Santander on Thursdays, and a 28 hour crossing time, are not compatible with each other.  One of those must be wrong.

It would be better if the Cork departure WAS at 11am because then the arrival from Roscoff could be at a more civilised time.

I’m beginning to wonder whether my initial estimate of 26 hours for the passage time might be more accurate.

Chris Jones posted on a  Twitter reply the sailing would be about 26 hours.

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Ok, thanks Neil, that makes more sense to me.  So.  Going back to 26 hours, this is version #3 that fits known intel as closely as possible:

Monday:  1300 arr CORK;  1830 dep CORK

Tuesday:  0930 arr ROSCOFF;  1800 dep ROSCOFF

Wednesday:  0700 arr CORK;  1100 dep CORK

Thursday:  1400 arr SANTANDER;  1700 dep SANTANDER

Friday:  1800 arr CORK;  2230 dep CORK

Saturday:  At Sea

Sunday:  0800 arr SANTANDER;  1200 dep SANTANDER

If this is what it ends up looking like (give or take half an hour here and there) then Armorique and Connemara would have to play musical berths on Tuesdays at Roscoff, with Armorique arriving from Plymouth, unloading, coming off the berth for Connemara.  Connemara then comes off the berth after unloading to allow Armorique back on to load for Plymouth, before returning to the berth after Armorique's 1510 departure.

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That all sounds a bit messy in Roscoff. Do your revised timings allow for delays picked up during the Biscay crossings? If not, perhaps the departure from Cork on Mondays and subsequent arrival into Roscoff could be pushed back to fit the existing schedule better. Plus, doesn't CF call at Roscoff on a Monday too? Ed. 

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11 hours ago, Fine Whine said:

Hurrah....

Back from holiday, back in Roscoff!

Our local rag Le Télégramme is saying this morning she will be sailing under a Cypriot flag with a European crew (non French). Jean-Marc Roué is making it very clear the uncertainties of Brexit means risk taking has to be kept to a minimum and they can't afford the new route to lose money. BF have committed to tranferring to the French flag within a maximum of 3 years, assuming the route is a success. They have been completely transparent and discussed the plan with the Comité d'Entreprises (a group of employees from within BF representing the whole workforce) as well the CFDT union, both of whom have given the green light.

So in a difficult market place this is an innovative and I would say brave decision on the part of BF, and great news for us in Roscoff for all the reasons cited so far. It looks to me as though she will arrive here on Tuesday mornings, probably after Armorique has unloaded and cast off again before the 15h00 afternoon sailing to Plymouth so around midday or 13h00; we'll know more in a couple of weeks.

Chris

(with apologies for using the 'B' word)

 

I've seen theories floating around the internet that brexit may be part of the reasoning for starting the route. The theory being that with the UK intending to leave the customs union, any Irish traffic to Spain would therefore avoid any customs checks. I don't personally know how much irish freight uses the current spanish routes, so it could be that theory doesn't stack up. Having said that, BF will know exactly, so they might be able to free up capacity from the UK and open a new market in one hit.

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7 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

That all sounds a bit messy in Roscoff. Do your revised timings allow for delays picked up during the Biscay crossings? If not, perhaps the departure from Cork on Mondays and subsequent arrival into Roscoff could be pushed back to fit the existing schedule better. Plus, doesn't CF call at Roscoff on a Monday too? Ed. 

Musical berths is normal routine at Roscoff.  You often find Armorique, Pont Aven and Oscar Wilde all there and taking it in turns to berth on Fridays.

Catch up times are the two-night crossing from Cork on Fridays and the extended stay in Roscoff.

Yes, CF is in Roscoff on Mondays.  Another example of musical berths, as Armorique has to vacate the berth for her.

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It’s deliberately extended as a two-nighter. Just like CF’s passage down to Bilbao on Mondays takes longer than it would at normal speed.  I really can’t see them planning an 0200 arrival, can you?! 😉

I might be an hour out, they might go for 0700 (which I think is CF’s arrival time in Bilbao on Tuesday mornings).  But I’d be very surprised if it was earlier than that.

Anyway, we’ll see.  I’ll leave it at that (#3) now and see what BF actually comes up with.  Of course I might be totally wrong. 

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25 minutes ago, Gareth said:

It’s deliberately extended as a two-nighter. Just like CF’s passage down to Bilbao on Mondays takes longer than it would at normal speed.  I really can’t see them planning an 0200 arrival, can you?! 😉

I personally think that's it's fairly pleasant, if you get onboard so late that you are straight into bed anyway, and then you have basically one clear day to relax, get an early night and then a fresh early start for the next day,  be it a start to your holiday or an onward journey. You would probably not get such an early start even if you were doing an airport stopover or whatever.

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46 minutes ago, Gareth said:

It’s deliberately extended as a two-nighter. Just like CF’s passage down to Bilbao on Mondays takes longer than it would at normal speed.  I really can’t see them planning an 0200 arrival, can you?! 😉

I might be an hour out, they might go for 0700 (which I think is CF’s arrival time in Bilbao on Tuesday mornings).  But I’d be very surprised if it was earlier than that.

Anyway, we’ll see.  I’ll leave it at that (#3) now and see what BF actually comes up with.  Of course I might be totally wrong. 

Just needed to someone to confirm my calculation,not concerned about the early arrival time .All though it is targeted at the freight trade so the truck drivers might like the early start .

Edited by Chef

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3 hours ago, Gareth said:

Musical berths is normal routine at Roscoff.  You often find Armorique, Pont Aven and Oscar Wilde all there and taking it in turns to berth on Fridays.

Catch up times are the two-night crossing from Cork on Fridays and the extended stay in Roscoff.

Yes, CF is in Roscoff on Mondays.  Another example of musical berths, as Armorique has to vacate the berth for her.

Sounds to me as if Roscoff ought now to be thinking in terms of a second roro berth.  

I believe P&O's Pride of Bilbao also took longer than necessary on the southbound leg in order to avoid an arrival in Bilbao in the early hours of the morning. 

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11 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

HT,

Have you ever been to Roscoff?  Adding a second roro berth is far more complicated (and expensive) than meets the eye....

Chris

You beat me to it Chris!

In case a ferry would be stuck to the berth, they can always divert to Brest or even St-malo.

Edited by crechbleiz

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13 hours ago, Hawser Trunnion said:

I believe P&O's Pride of Bilbao also took longer than necessary on the southbound leg in order to avoid an arrival in Bilbao in the early hours of the morning.

I think P&O had a different business model, theirs was more about packing the bars, the longer they were at sea the more was spent onboard. They couldn't compete for freight as PoB's capacity is poor.

Interesting fact: Irish Ferries still own her through their subsidiary Zatarga Ltd. The same Douglas based company which owns Oscar Wilde.

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2 hours ago, Fine Whine said:

HT,

Have you ever been to Roscoff?  Adding a second roro berth is far more complicated (and expensive) than meets the eye....

Chris

Yes, indeed I have!  I passed through in 1974 after an appalling crossing on Pen-Ar-Bed from Plymouth and on a number of times since after very much more agreeable crossings. There was nothing there in 1974 -- unlike now.  I entirely agree it's very difficult to see where a second berth at Roscoff could be built.  

I could have mentioned Roscoff's second berth may well have to be at Brest but declined to do so because I didn't want to go off topic and anyway the subject is being discussed elsewhere in these Forums.

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