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Environmentally friendly???

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2 hours ago, jonno said:

That's fair enough Neil I carried on about rainwater as crechbleiz was putting words in my mouth... Where have I written that rainwater has a pH of 0? He then claimed that rainwater with a pH of less than 7 is acidic which is not accurate either as at 0'c it's pH is 7.47 but still has equal amounts of Hydronium and Hydroxide ions and at 100'c its pH is 6.14 again non acidic as it still has equal amounts of H3O and OH. Both are neutral.

 

Jonno, can we please put this one to bed? Would you agree that stating that "rainwater has no pH" was not a correct statement? Neutral is 7 but not nothing. 

I won't bother arguing further. 

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Bureau Veritas will cover what ships can run on, but they have no reason to report on what is being used. Perhaps the chap at Whitakers had Bretagne in his mind?

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5 hours ago, crechbleiz said:

Jonno, can we please put this one to bed? Would you agree that stating that "rainwater has no pH" was not a correct statement? Neutral is 7 but not nothing. 

I won't bother arguing further. 

https://chem.libretexts.org/Textbook_Maps/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Acids_and_Bases/A

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26 minutes ago, colin said:

Bureau Veritas will cover what ships can run on, but they have no reason to report on what is being used. Perhaps the chap at Whitakers had Bretagne in his mind?

I don't know. I spoke to Jerry Mooney and he was under the impression that BAI's oil terminal at Millbay held MDO which refuels Armorique and Pont Aven when her timetable dictates. He was also under the same impression concerning the Jaynee W.

Collectively their engines can't run on both as the rotocaps for the exhaust and inlet valves aren't compatible neither are the oil filters and injection pumps. I've heard PA only runs on one engine, maybe she uses them alternatively for each fuel and is bunkered with HFO in Spain? 

As the local French governments paid for most of the scrubber installations BF boxed clever by having the more cost effective type which also include catalysers and DPF's meaning they won't need further work when HFO production stops in a few years.

To answer your previous question regarding the price of HFO it's currently at £365 a tonne with conversion and density etc it's about 32p a litre. It's 12p cheaper than MDO but you need a hell of a lot more of it not to mention the expensive maintenance HFO tanks and plant require.

When SECA was first mooted back in 2006 HFO was around 15p a litre, £151 a tonne so it's seen a price rise of around 245%. MDO was 29p at £330 a tonne, nearly twice the price so it's clear now how less attractive the heavy stuff is becoming, the price gap is closing rapidly and is now possibly far more expensive when you factor in the ancillaries and miles per tonne...

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56 minutes ago, jonno said:

I don't know. I spoke to Jerry Mooney and he was under the impression that BAI's oil terminal at Millbay held MDO which refuels Armorique and Pont Aven when her timetable dictates. He was also under the same impression concerning the Jaynee W.

There must also be HFO storage in Plymouth since Armorique is refuelled there and we now know that she runs on HFO. 

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5 minutes ago, Jim said:

Khaines - what's this link for? Rather than just posting, please include some commentary on why you are doing it.

Link for cheminstry of rainwater to provide clarification from scientific source.

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I have no in depth knowledge of Pont Aven or Armorique engines. Bretagne has always been able to run on either fuel, though some work is needed each change, so it was not so hard to do it only once.

As Pont Aven has 4 engines, it would be odd to run on only one, hence only driving one shaft?

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There have been a number of reports in the press and on TV here recently about the polution caused in Nice and elsewhere by cruise liners, and particularly ageing ferries, burning heavy fuel oil and not being equipped with scrubbers. 

Here is one example :

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.lesechos.fr/amp/64/2202464.php&ved=2ahUKEwiI65KaxK7dAhVDrxoKHaA4ASsQFjAKegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0DRxxwcMb31VYxVnJX3lrM&ampcf=1

Ed

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Thanks, Ed, for posting that article.

There are criticisms in the article, too, of scrubbers, which (as has been posted on here more than once) simply dump the sulfur in the seas. (I really dislike this "modern" spelling of "sulphur").

It's good to see that certain ports and fleets are working to beat this kind of pollution, and the adoption of LNG engines should help enormously.

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Exactly, and when in port they very rarely shut down the engines and the mainly southerly and westerly winds then carry all the smoke (and in Nice soot according to the France 3 report I saw on Saturday) across the city, people's balconies and the most affluent areas of the town.

Here's the link :

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/provence-alpes-cote-d-azur/alpes-maritimes/nice/nice-impact-ferries-qualite-air-1537916.amp&ved=2ahUKEwjgpo3V76_dAhVKCxoKHd7dCQYQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2urPbrfAM3vC7pDH-Tnduy&ampcf=1

Ed. 

Edited by Cabin-boy

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On 09/09/2018 at 20:31, Jardinier said:

Thanks, Ed, for posting that article.

There are criticisms in the article, too, of scrubbers, which (as has been posted on here more than once) simply dump the sulfur in the seas. (I really dislike this "modern" spelling of "sulphur").

It's good to see that certain ports and fleets are working to beat this kind of pollution, and the adoption of LNG engines should help enormously.

I've always wondered the same thing. It feels to me like a cheap hack to get around ill thought out rules, rather than doing anything for the environment. I really don't see how scubbers are a positive step. LNG feels like a far better solution for the long term (although I appreciate that isn't much help for most existing ships).

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