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Khaines

Plastic cutlery

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I bought paper cotton buds at the weekend.  See Morrisons are reintroducing paper bags for produce.  The worst offenders are bin liners, how many black sacks get used every day, how many bin liners.  I used to re-use carrier bags as bin liners, but most people use bin liners every day, they ought to be biodegradable.  Some are, but they are expensive ones..😡

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1 hour ago, neilcvx said:

It won’t be an issue for much longer.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/news/single-use-plastics-2018-may-28_en

Plastic ban in certain products: Where alternatives are readily available and affordable, single-use plastic products will be banned from the market. The ban will apply to plastic cotton buds, cutlery, plates, straws, drink stirrers

Yep and the huge stocks of these banned plastics will just magically disappear... Oh no they won't will they. They'll just add to the already brimming landfill sites, which are all supposed to be full this year with no space for more.

But wait...hold on, many of the new alternatives will be heading to landfill sites too as some need very high temperatures produced on an industrial scale... high energy aeration is very, very expensive and not cost effective.

Corn starch based plastic waste will stockpile as there are only 7 bioreactor landfills in the UK with no plan to build more, you can't chuck it in your compost bin or let it degrade in an ordinary landfill as it it needs GM raw sewage which in itself contaminates the soil as the added leachate is full of cadmium, chromium and nickel.

Biodegradable bags are useless to the point that some EU members wanted to ban them. Photodegradable plastics need a huge amount of UV while oxy-degradable plastics can't be composted or anaerobically digested and behave just like carbon plastics in seawater. Some items are classed as biodegradable just because they break down quicker even though the process still takes years.

The only advantage in using these alternatives is if there is a net saving in energy, water and potential greenhouse gases.  Biodegradable waste whether it's at a bioreactor facility or a traditional landfill site produces huge quantities of methane which is entering our atmosphere unchecked, when it burns off in the thermosphere it produces huge amounts of CO2...  

No that's due to all of the combustion engines isn't it? Nope, a single landfill site in any city in the UK will produce more harmful CO2 producing methane gas than 5000 petrol vehicles. Funny that, I wondered why the Environment Agency no longer produced a landfill map of the UK... Anyway.

So, what effect are these new magic cure conscience clearing  fuels and plastics having?

As an example the global cost of fruit and vegetables, meat and dairy has risen disproportionately to the cost of living in most first world countries as many landowners are now growing crops specifically to produce plastics and biofuels which must be genetically modified which means even in the distant future the land is unsuitable for food... but hey the huge swathes of yellow fields spread across our countryside are pretty aren't they?

All that's being done is replacing one problem with another.

Me, I'd scoop it all up and burn the lot of it, simple as that... Build self fuelling waste to energy incinerators fitted with high density catalysers, even the condensate can be filtered to become potable water. 

 

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Plastics put into landfill produce genitacly modify chemicals that seep into the eco system if you do away with them then the long term effects is obviously beneficial, there’s a bio fuel plant near me that uses waste produce to make bio oil so there’s obviously ways that that can be used, at the end of the day none of alternatives to plastic have the detrimental harm or as long lasting in the environment as plastic, there’s a reason that the EU is banning single use plastic it’s not a vanity project for them.

Edited by neilcvx

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8 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

genitacly modify chemicals

That's it! I'm never putting plastic cutlery in my trouser pockets ever again!😕 Ed. 

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5 hours ago, neilcvx said:

Plastics put into landfill produce genitacly modify chemicals that seep into the eco system if you do away with them then the long term effects is obviously beneficial, there’s a bio fuel plant near me that uses waste produce to make bio oil so there’s obviously ways that that can be used, at the end of the day none of alternatives to plastic have the detrimental harm or as long lasting in the environment as plastic, there’s a reason that the EU is banning single use plastic it’s not a vanity project for them.

Yes, it's why I think it's better to burn all the landfill in a plant like the one Levenseat are building in Lanark. Biomass power plants will burn anything. 11 megawatts of power and 12 megawatts of heat.

What's the plan for the world stocks of so called single use plastics if there's a ban on using them, no one banging the drum for their demise has come up with anything... shall we send them into space or just like the rest of it bury it in the ground?

What's the plan for disposing of the plastics floating around the world or lying in huge heaps in Asian and some African countries... there are a lot of people moaning about it but very little is being suggested on how to get rid of it?

Biofuel plants have been around for a couple of decades making biodiesel and bio-ethanol and bio-methanol. waste oils and fats are only a small part of the process, it's why we have so many rapeseed fields. These facilities are now using genetically modified E coli to produce bio gasoline plus use a whole host of other long worded nasties to separate and refine the waste oils.. The idea was that biofuels wouldn't compete with food production but that didn't last long.

All biofuels are pollutants, they produce CO2, CO and N2O. Bio Ethanol produces high levels of Formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde and let's not forget the amount of forests, rainforests and arable land which has been destroyed in order to produce GM crops for biofuel.

The EU have called for a ban on most of the 1st generation biofuels such as soy and palm oil and a report in 2008 by a Nobel prize winner showed that producing the biofuel from these two in particular created nitrous oxide emissions which contributed more to global warming than the fossil fuels they had been designed to replace. 

So back to the topic in hand. 

What's the plan then for BF to stop using plastic cutlery and offer another more eco friendly alternative and more importantly what's the plan in order for them to responsibly dispose of the stocks of their said offending culinary weaponry many so hasily want them to throw away? 

Do they put it all in a bin bag for landfill as out of sight means out of mind as they proudly showcase their new biodegradable utensils in order to placate the sensitivities of those among us who feel their use should be revised due to their tie in with ORCA or should they just through it over the side and cut out the middle man?

I vote we discuss their plastic coated paper plates next... Paperplategate perhaps?

 

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The idea is to stop producing oil based plastics so stopping the issue of how to dispose of them it’s a long term project which will take time to produce benefits, I’m sure as has been communicated to me BF are working with their suppliers to find alternatives to single use plastic  such as starch based cutlery, obviously every fuel produces noxious fumes it’s minimising them that’s the goal maybe Bretagnes replacement will be the first BF ship with rotor sails.

http://shop.biogreengate.com/

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I advocate burning.  The amount of material in landfills could be quarried to gradually burn it all.  Nowadays, incinerators have filters to stop harmful gases, and when you think of how scrubbers on the ferries remove the bad stuff, there is no reason why an incinerator plant could use such technology to remove harmful particles from what is being burnt and the water containing residue collected in tanks and purified, sending clean water back into rivers.  Should be hardly any solid residue left.  There are enough landfills in the country and they say space is running out.  Well then, dig it all up and burn it.

What about those plastic eating caterpillars then...

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21 hours ago, daves_pad! said:

lol - only on BFE can there be so much talk about the issues over eating a pizza with plastic cutlery... 

Maybe because plastic waste, is the single biggest issue facing the planet right now. Like minded people talking about what can be done to help this issue, will only make the situation better, no matter how little the impact is. Scrutinising the usage is the best thing to do.  

 

Edit - I'm not being rude, I just strongly believe we should be doing more as a group, no matter how small or big, to do something about this. 

Edited by Danish Ferry Person
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2 hours ago, neilcvx said:

obviously every fuel produces noxious fumes it’s minimising them that’s the goal maybe Bretagnes replacement will be the first BF ship with rotor sails.

You can burn LNG and the only exhaust gas is steam it's called combined cycle, they have heat recovery steam generators. The MT30 gas turbine has them. Couple one or two of those with two of your rotor sails and you have a ship with zero emissions. It's expensive but no more than fitting a couple of diesel burning gas ready engines with about six scrubbers. 

There are also waste incinerators which could be fitted to all ships which have hot gas filtration and particulate scrubbing which can burn a tonne every two hours.. One of those together with the desalination and grey water recycling plants which most modern ships now have on board and you'd have one very, very green ship.

It's all doable, it's a bit like SECA you have to back companies into a corner so there's no alternative in order to get them to shift.

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This Canadian company offers an entire range of products.

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.greenmunch.ca/&ved=2ahUKEwi_vaTKw_DbAhVLTMAKHUCuCTAQFjAAegQIBhAD&usg=AOvVaw39X_RNKFuzVhLjUP6q6MqW

If BF were to use such products for all its takeaway outlets it would be a great publicity boost for their green credentials. They would also not need to pay a company (such as Veolia or others) to get rid of the onboard waste as long as passengers disposed of it in the appropriate bin and could donate it to local farmers or city councils for composting. Ed

Edited by Cabin-boy
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