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BobCrox

Plymouth - Roscoff disadvantaged again

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1 hour ago, hf_uk said:

Tis the truth!

As I said, if that's what you believe to be true, that's fine.

I'm not expending the energy breaking down the intricacies of who owns what at Millbay.

Why not send an email to Dave Atkin and ask him?

Edited by jonno

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42 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

From Wikipedia so might be totally untrue.

There are currently two large deepwater docks, one of which is part-owned by Brittany Ferries, which has its UK headquarters here.”

I'd heard that BF actually helped pay for the berthing facilities opposite, where the 3 large dolphins are - which BF does not use, but is merely there for emergency contingency.

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38 minutes ago, jonno said:

As I said, if that's what you believe to be true, that's fine.

I'm not expending the energy breaking down the intricacies of who owns what at Millbay.

Why not send an email to Dave Atkin and ask him?

You should update Wikipedia 😉

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10 hours ago, Solo said:

I think this year we had half term and then another break before the full time service started, next year there is a service right through.

That's very possible. This year Zone B was third and last in the sequence so began around the 23rd February for two weeks. Perhaps they needed Arm during the interim period to cover elsewhere whereas this year she's not required and they can maintain a token sailing each way once every couple of days. Ed.

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5 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Perhaps they needed Arm during the interim period to cover

I believe that they did an emergency schedule change this year when someone was careless with a rope on the Normandie which led to the unscheduled dry docking.

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On 25/07/2018 at 13:08, BobCrox said:

I seem to remember many more sailings on this route in the past. Storms at Roscoff were not a problem then.

 

What ships were being used? 

Armorique is a lot bigger than the older ships.

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Yes she is, but that would tend to make bad weather operation more viable, not less.  Well, in terms of vulnerability to exposed conditions, wind and the need for shelter on the berth anyway.

I suppose the factor that would have been in favour of the older, smaller, ships would have been their shallower draughts.  It is only relatively recently that I have become aware of tidal factors being restrictive at Roscoff and that may well be due to the larger draughts of the modern ferries.  It may be that extreme swell at low water is more of a problem now than it was, for entry and exit.

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1 hour ago, Gareth said:

It is only relatively recently that I have become aware of tidal factors being restrictive at Roscoff and that may well be due to the larger draughts of the modern ferries.

I think you're spot on. The 12 inch (30 cms) difference between Armorique's draft and that of Bretagne doesn't sound a lot but in terms of the squat effect it can cause significant issues in shallow water which is affected far more at it's lower depths by surges and wind than deeper waters. 

Bernoulli again, a man we've discussed before in reference to the shallow depths available to shipping in Poole harbour. 

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On 25/07/2018 at 13:42, nottingham said:

The penalty for having such a 'versatile' ship on your route!😂

We are the opposite in Poole...😉 We get Arm for a few days a year that is about it.  

Edited by Khaines

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I've always enjoyed the Plymouth - St Malo sailings on the couple of occasions I've managed to grab one.  Once on Bretagne so would always be amazing (!) And pretty sure the other was on Pont Avon .  From what I remember both were moderately well loaded.    My normal commute route is Poole Cherbourg and I've noticed out of season when plym-ros is closed an increase in the number of Bretagne transport firms using pool-cher.   Perhaps this extra traffic from the west is enough to keep Barfy sailing over winter?

I'd have thought that a winter only Poole - St Malo route would help address the needs of Bretagne transport firms and cut down the number of road miles traveled.

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4 hours ago, 1kerbut1 said:

Yes, but bear in mind Mesguin from St Pol de Leon have a depot in Cherbourg.

That's true but the fish and shellfish exporters from Brixham, Plymouth and Newlyn will always use Plymouth when they can . Trucks from Armoric Transport and Dartmouth Crab Company are the ones I see regularly on their fish runs. 

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Live over here in Finistere in Brittany and the moaning you hear about the Roscoff/Plymouth winter timetables is unbelievable. Many folk want to visit family for Xmas and/or the New Year but do not want to drive to remote (to us) ports only to have to drive all the way back to Cornwall etc.

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6 hours ago, RayWild said:

Live over here in Finistere in Brittany and the moaning you hear about the Roscoff/Plymouth winter timetables is unbelievable. Many folk want to visit family for Xmas and/or the New Year but do not want to drive to remote (to us) ports only to have to drive all the way back to Cornwall etc.

Use it or loose it. If it was used more in the Winter BF would find a way of keeping it running.

Presumably it is being used now which is why the Armorique was not moved to cover MSM next week.

2019/2020 will be interesting as the Normandie will be available for Winter cover and BF don’t mind suspending Le Havre.

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Don't use it lose it,comes to mind,I know it must be a pain having to drive to Portsmouth.just think of us poor sods that live up north and Scotland and the 280 plus miles we have to drive just to get down to portsmouth.

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I think recent climate change effects on Atlantic winter storms are beginning to dictate any type of service from Plymouth to or from Roscoff or St Malo. Like it or not ports such as these and Poole to a lesser extent don't have the natural shelter needed for the modern named storms we now experience neither do they have the sea room or sea depth. 

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In all of the years going from uk to Spain and back 8/9 times a year ,I don't see the storms getting much worse.only had one crossing cancelled in all that time(lucky maybe) had a few delayed crossings but on the whole very little problems.

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3 hours ago, nodwad said:

Don't use it lose it,comes to mind,I know it must be a pain having to drive to Portsmouth.just think of us poor sods that live up north and Scotland and the 280 plus miles we have to drive just to get down to portsmouth.

I can sympathise with you and your long haul to the coast, but you also need to realise that Cornwall and parts of Devon are also a long way from places like Portsmouth, and there are no motorways along the South Coast until you reach the M27, and that doesn't go so far. If you are going to Brittany or Western France and having to add the extra hours travelling from Ouistreham,  that can make a big difference to the journey too. As for Folkestone and Dover, have you any idea how far they are from, say, Plymouth? (285 miles according to Mr. Google). I am not sure I can answer the "Use it or lose it" comments politely: how can we "Use it" if it isn't there?

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27 minutes ago, Bassman said:

I can sympathise with you and your long haul to the coast, but you also need to realise that Cornwall and parts of Devon are also a long way from places like Portsmouth, and there are no motorways along the South Coast until you reach the M27, and that doesn't go so far. If you are going to Brittany or Western France and having to add the extra hours travelling from Ouistreham,  that can make a big difference to the journey too. As for Folkestone and Dover, have you any idea how far they are from, say, Plymouth? (285 miles according to Mr. Google). I am not sure I can answer the "Use it or lose it" comments politely: how can we "Use it" if it isn't there?

Aside from the fact that they have to take Arm away to cover other, and more strategically important, routes there is clearly not enough business for them to sustain a daily crossing in each direction. I have the same frustration out of season with St Malo but know that I can divert to Caen if need be. The only solution might be to run PA on a 4-port system out of season but that would mean some customers being forced over to Caen due to the lack of sailings. She could do the big Friday night ex-Portsmouth departure to St Malo (arriving a little earlier) then go across to Plymouth and back to Roscoff on the Saturday, then overnight to Plymouth, a day crossing to St Malo and overnight back to Portsmouth before resuming her normal schedule. That would still allow people a weekend away in St Malo with a night ashore and give those wanting a week or more in Finisterre a crossing each way at the weekend plus the added bonus of allowing those in the west country to travel directly to Eastern Brittany and further afield. Ed. 

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4 hours ago, colin said:

I think we are a long, long way from considering reducing the use of these ports due to climate change!

Colin I'm not saying that there will be a reduction due to climate change, I certainly don't buy into half of what the "experts" bang on about it either, just pointing out that Roscoff, Plymouth and Poole are far more susceptible to the more recent change toward powerful named winter storms. The sea maybe fine for the vessels to bounce around on but entering unsheltered ports is another matter.

We've all seen the pretty patterns on Marine Traffic because Armorique can't get on the berth.

 

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