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Migrant Issues at BF Ports

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On friday afternoon, there were certainly quite a few groups of (presumably) potential migrants (maybe about 50 men? hard to estimate) milling about on the square by the approach roads/car park. Lots of gendarmes. nothing Particuarly threatening for us in a smallish passenger car, though one man did try and open the tailgate of a VW people carrier in front of us.

 

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The article and accompanying video again relate to Ouistreham rather than Cherbourg so perhaps the MODS can switch it to another thread. 

Watching the video what I can't understand is first why there is no locking mechanism for the rear doors to at least provide an initial barrier to entry (as these trucks are not stopping to deliver and collect goods every 10 minutes) and second why there are no tamper-seals placed on the doors so that it's immediately obvious to the drivers and police/immigration staff that someone has tried to get in and may still be there. Ed. 

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On TVs this morning the road hauliers are saying the British trucks are locked i.e. Pad locks etc.yet the European trucks are not,it makes you wonder why not?what will happens when we leave the etc and the French tell our boarder control people to get back to the other side of the channel because that will happen .then the trouble we are to have will multiply out of control.

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2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

The article and accompanying video again relate to Ouistreham rather than Cherbourg so perhaps the MODS can switch it to another thread. 

Apologies - I intended to post it on the Ouistrahem thread, but clearly trying to copy and paste a link on a phone at a bus-stop at 6am is not necessarily a good idea...!

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56 minutes ago, nodwad said:

On TVs this morning the road hauliers are saying the British trucks are locked i.e. Pad locks etc.yet the European trucks are not,it makes you wonder why not?what will happens when we leave the etc and the French tell our boarder control people to get back to the other side of the channel because that will happen .then the trouble we are to have will multiply out of control.

With respect nodwad you have the complete wrong end of the stick...

UK vehicles are locked and sealed as we have a border, always have had. France don't, they are part of Schengen enabling anyone the opportunity to freely move from the southern tip of Greece to the most northern tip of Poland without a second glance. They aren't really that robust in terms of movement but will need to be after we leave. The vehicles passing through their ports heading to the UK will need to be more secure after March 2019. Time is running out for those wanting to stowaway rather than be heading for a free for all. The French are miffed as they will need to take more responsibility in terms of beefing up their controls at their channel ports.

Why do you think the EU want truck traffic from Spain, Portugal and North Africa on ships rather than transiting through France, it's partly to bypass the migrant issue which will continue to mount in Europe. It's also a factor in why most TEU's will be train based through Italy.

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38 minutes ago, Halfcrown said:

Apologies - I intended to post it on the Ouistrahem thread, but clearly trying to copy and paste a link on a phone at a bus-stop at 6am is not necessarily a good idea...!

Begs the question as to whether we really need two separate "Migrants" threads.  Anyone got any objections to merging the Cherbourg and Ouistreham threads into one?

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The Sky news video is very good, normally you just see the pictures, however the interviews were helpful.

The French ladies did not seem that bothered with the Sudanese lads & confirmed that they did not feel threatened.

However if the boys were really as young as they claim, why is not the French equivalent of Social Services doing something to protect them.

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7 hours ago, jonno said:

With respect nodwad you have the complete wrong end of the stick...

 UK vehicles are locked and sealed as we have a border, always have had. France don't, they are part of Schengen enabling anyone the opportunity to freely move from the southern tip of Greece to the most northern tip of Poland without a second glance. They aren't really that robust in terms of movement but will need to be after we leave. The vehicles passing through their ports heading to the UK will need to be more secure after March 2019. Time is running out for those wanting to stowaway rather than be heading for a free for all. The French are miffed as they will need to take more responsibility in terms of beefing up their controls at their channel ports.

Why do you think the EU want truck traffic from Spain, Portugal and North Africa on ships rather than transiting through France, it's partly to bypass the migrant issue which will continue to mount in Europe. It's also a factor in why most TEU's will be train based through Italy.

Customs transit seals are one thing but are not intended to "lock" a trailer/truck cargo door. There are armoured padlocks costing around £50 that are immune to bolt croppers. 

Edited by merc
Spelling error

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Here is the story of a British trucker and her troubles. Worth a read certainly..

https://news.sky.com/story/i-was-accused-of-being-a-people-smuggler-i-have-no-sympathy-for-migrants-that-caused-my-arrest-11492451

It really is high time the French started to enforce the rules and compulsory register these youths, as they are required to do. The Police overtime bill must be crippling.

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35 minutes ago, Paully said:

Here is the story of a British trucker and her troubles. Worth a read certainly..

https://news.sky.com/story/i-was-accused-of-being-a-people-smuggler-i-have-no-sympathy-for-migrants-that-caused-my-arrest-11492451

It really is high time the French started to enforce the rules and compulsory register these youths, as they are required to do. The Police overtime bill must be crippling.

Good find! That detail about a generic key reminds me of all the problems farmers had a few years ago with tractor thefts. Hence the need for a seal which shows at a glance if the doors have been opened or tampered with. Ed. 

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With any common sense you would of thought all trucks would be locked not only the British trucks,just wonder how much stock goes missing when stopping over and what do there insurance companies think of trucks with no locks on .

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You can have as many locks as you like on a curtain sider, none of them will stop the sharp blade of a thief. They can also be loosened then refastened by an accomplice after you've gained illegal entry.

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6 hours ago, jonno said:

You can have as many locks as you like on a curtain sider, none of them will stop the sharp blade of a thief. They can also be loosened then refastened by an accomplice after you've gained illegal entry.

True, and those are the truck which need the most stringent checks. If the other, more solid and impenetrable types used  more robust locking systems then the available resources could be better applied. Ed. 

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20 hours ago, Gareth said:

Begs the question as to whether we really need two separate "Migrants" threads.  Anyone got any objections to merging the Cherbourg and Ouistreham threads into one?

No objections raised so topics merged.

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11 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

True, and those are the truck which need the most stringent checks. If the other, more solid and impenetrable types used  more robust locking systems then the available resources could be better applied. Ed. 

Ed all of the rigids and articulated bodied trailers have eyelets which can easily have a padlock fitted through them, problem is it's where they usually slide either the metal or plastic seals. Both doors have them, it's where the handles sit, so there is no reason why only one seal is used for customs and excise purposes and the locking door has the padlock. The curtain siders can have seals or even cable ties slipped through the straps too which would clearly indicate if any tampering had occurred.

 

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17 hours ago, jonno said:

Ed all of the rigids and articulated bodied trailers have eyelets which can easily have a padlock fitted through them, problem is it's where they usually slide either the metal or plastic seals. Both doors have them, it's where the handles sit, so there is no reason why only one seal is used for customs and excise purposes and the locking door has the padlock. The curtain siders can have seals or even cable ties slipped through the straps too which would clearly indicate if any tampering had occurred.

 

Exactly, so is it a reluctance on the part of hauliers to invest in the equipment (a bit stupid compared to the fines levied) or drivers not wanting the extra hassle when loading and unloading (they are the ones always complaining about stowaways and being intimidated so that seems strange)? Why the border authorities don't insist on such locks and seals I don't know. Ed. 

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31 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Exactly, so is it a reluctance on the part of hauliers to invest in the equipment (a bit stupid compared to the fines levied) or drivers not wanting the extra hassle when loading and unloading (they are the ones always complaining about stowaways and being intimidated so that seems strange)? Why the border authorities don't insist on such locks and seals I don't know. Ed. 

Well, you reap what you sew. the Customs Union means that once goods are in the EU they never need to be checked again so there is zero obligation and very little motivation on anyone's part to enhance anything. The system is only really put into play when goods are received from non EU free market members such as Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein and non EU or EEA free market members such as the Swiss... but no one is attempting to board their transport systems without paying. 

Which is really the crux of the matter.

Once a migrant is welcomed into the open arms of the EU he or she can travel where they please, they don't need a passport to travel from either Greece or Italy up to the Baltic and they don't legally need a passport to enter Ireland either, just proof of nationality if born outside of the UK. If they have this and the money to buy a ticket at say Cherbourg no migrant can be refused travel to Ireland. It's against their human rights and the European court would have something to say.

They don't understand that the UK has subtle differences in terms of non EU, EEA or Swiss nationals... who can all travel to the UK without a passport, yes carriers will be a bit miffed if all you have is alternate proof but they can't say no.  They don't understand that even with the required documents and even possibly the money to freely travel throughout the other 27 members they still need a passport to enter the UK.

I'm morphing into another theme so I'm packing in now...

 

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12 minutes ago, jonno said:

Lichtenstein

Ah, yes, the home of Hilti power tools. Luckily those trucks do get checked as they contain enough equipment to cut open the locks on all the others. Ed. 

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On 09/09/2018 at 12:47, jonno said:

Well, you reap what you sew. the Customs Union means that once goods are in the EU they never need to be checked again so there is zero obligation and very little motivation on anyone's part to enhance anything. The system is only really put into play when goods are received from non EU free market members such as Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein and non EU or EEA free market members such as the Swiss... but no one is attempting to board their transport systems without paying. 

Which is really the crux of the matter.

Once a migrant is welcomed into the open arms of the EU he or she can travel where they please, they don't need a passport to travel from either Greece or Italy up to the Baltic and they don't legally need a passport to enter Ireland either, just proof of nationality if born outside of the UK. If they have this and the money to buy a ticket at say Cherbourg no migrant can be refused travel to Ireland. It's against their human rights and the European court would have something to say.

They don't understand that the UK has subtle differences in terms of non EU, EEA or Swiss nationals... who can all travel to the UK without a passport, yes carriers will be a bit miffed if all you have is alternate proof but they can't say no.  They don't understand that even with the required documents and even possibly the money to freely travel throughout the other 27 members they still need a passport to enter the UK.

I'm morphing into another theme so I'm packing in now...

 

Out of interest, why is entry to Ireland so different to the UK? On paper they are both a hard border between Schengen and CTA.

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26 minutes ago, penguin said:

Out of interest, why is entry to Ireland so different to the UK? On paper they are both a hard border between Schengen and CTA.

In a similar vein what checks are there between Ireland and the UK? I've never been to Ireland myself.

I read last week that the Irish have free movement to the UK and this will continue, how does that sit with the EU?

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1 hour ago, Solo said:

In a similar vein what checks are there between Ireland and the UK? I've never been to Ireland myself.

I read last week that the Irish have free movement to the UK and this will continue, how does that sit with the EU?

I think you'll find the Irish, since partition, have always had free movement, a right to work and receive benefits within the UK and that will continue. But free movement, doesn't mean right of entry without any form of ID. Will it be harder to enter the UK from Ireland, who knows probably not even the UK government.

 

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1 hour ago, penguin said:

Out of interest, why is entry to Ireland so different to the UK? On paper they are both a hard border between Schengen and CTA.

Although Ireland didn't sign up for Schengen it's view is different to that of the UK's, it believes in free movement for everyone not just EU citizens, it aligned itself with the UK purely to safeguard relations but upholds the fundamentals of Schengen. it's why they've never had a border and free movement occurs from mainland Europe for travellers with the appropriate paperwork.

What is interesting and is maybe a bit off topic, back in 2001 Brussels said that it's fellow EU members would be, and I quote: 

"Unlikely to welcome a British and Irish adherence to Schengen and the resultant dropping of border controls without the introduction of comprehensive "flanking measures" to include large scale surveillance away from border crossings to offset this diminution in surveillance and control. It would be very likely that Member States would pressurise for the introduction of an identity card system for both countries which in the long term would produce very little technical difficulties."

Worth remembering too that France has wanted a border between the UK and Ireland since 9/11:

"This lax system of controls make it a breeding ground for terrorists" They have also questioned why such a disproportionate amount of asylum seekers try to get into Britain.

My sister who does a lot weird and wonderful legal stuff believes it's because of the differences in both ours and Ireland's law. We both have greater protections for the individual including habeas corpus whereas mainland Europe has a separate regime which is a pooled policy and regulatory framework governed by the Union and not the individual member states. Both the UK and Ireland have their own judicial system the other 26 members do not, Schengen meant handing over control of that.

Aquis Communautaire or Aquis of the EU means that laws made in Brussels take precedence over national law even constitutional law of the Schengen bound Member States whether it predates or postdates European legislation or not. According to the Court of Justice, these Member States have definitively transferred sovereign rights to the Union they created and they cannot go back on that transfer through unilateral measures unless they decide to break away from the EU. They cannot invoke their own national or constitutional laws. It's Multinational Integration and not like the relationship we have with Ireland which is Intergovernmental Cooperation.

One must read the both the "C" section and "L" section of the Official Journal of the European Union.

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12 minutes ago, jonno said:

Although Ireland didn't sign up for Schengen it's view is different to that of the UK's, it believes in free movement for everyone not just EU citizens, it aligned itself with the UK purely to safeguard relations but upholds the fundamentals of Schengen. it's why they've never had a border and free movement occurs from mainland Europe for travellers with the appropriate paperwork.

What is interesting and is maybe a bit off topic, back in 2001 Brussels said that it's fellow EU members would be, and I quote: 

"Unlikely to welcome a British and Irish adherence to Schengen and the resultant dropping of border controls without the introduction of comprehensive "flanking measures" to include large scale surveillance away from border crossings to offset this diminution in surveillance and control. It would be very likely that Member States would pressurise for the introduction of an identity card system for both countries which in the long term would produce very little technical difficulties."

Worth remembering too that France has wanted a border between the UK and Ireland since 9/11:

"This lax system of controls make it a breeding ground for terrorists" They have also questioned why such a disproportionate amount of asylum seekers try to get into Britain.

My sister who does a lot weird and wonderful legal stuff believes it's because of the differences in both ours and Ireland's law. We both have greater protections for the individual including habeas corpus whereas mainland Europe has a separate regime which is a pooled policy and regulatory framework governed by the Union and not the individual member states. Both the UK and Ireland have their own judicial system the other 26 members do not, Schengen meant handing over control of that.

Aquis Communautaire or Aquis of the EU means that laws made in Brussels take precedence over national law even constitutional law of the Schengen bound Member States whether it predates or postdates European legislation or not. According to the Court of Justice, these Member States have definitively transferred sovereign rights to the Union they created and they cannot go back on that transfer through unilateral measures unless they decide to break away from the EU. They cannot invoke their own national or constitutional laws. It's Multinational Integration and not like the relationship we have with Ireland which is Intergovernmental Cooperation.

One must read the both the "C" section and "L" section of the Official Journal of the European Union.

I find it hard to believe that the UK would allow Ireland to break the integrity of the common travel area. Is it really true there are no checks between France and Ireland? If that were the case, surely it would be a massive issue for relations between the two countries.

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