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Migrant Issues at BF Ports

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2 hours ago, Solo said:

In a similar vein what checks are there between Ireland and the UK? I've never been to Ireland myself.

I read last week that the Irish have free movement to the UK and this will continue, how does that sit with the EU?

The land border has no checks at all, the UK and Ireland are a single area. Air and sea passengers need to present a valid ID, but no travel documents are required. Airlines sometimes go above that just to cover their own backs, but it's not a legal requirement.

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2 hours ago, jonno said:

 it aligned itself with the UK purely to safeguard relations but upholds the fundamentals of Schengen. it's why they've never had a border and free movement occurs from mainland Europe for travellers with the appropriate paperwork.

Not true.  Ireland is not part of Schengen.  Never has been.   And there is no "free movement" to Ireland from mainland Europe.  On a recent trip from Santander to Cork our passports were "exit scanned" by the Spanish police and scrutinised by the Irish Police (Gardai) in Cork.  Irish customs also asked for our passports.  Information on visa requirements for Ireland can be found at:  https://www.dfa.ie/travel/visas/visas-for-ireland/ where it specifically says that Schengen visas are not valid for travel to Ireland.

 

Edited by Buzzbee

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2 hours ago, Buzzbee said:

Not true.  Ireland is not part of Schengen.  Never has been.   And there is no "free movement" to Ireland from mainland Europe.  On a recent trip from Santander to Cork our passports were "exit scanned" by the Spanish police and scrutinised by the Irish Police (Gardai) in Cork.  Irish customs also asked for our passports.  Information on visa requirements for Ireland can be found at:  https://www.dfa.ie/travel/visas/visas-for-ireland/ where it specifically says that Schengen visas are not valid for travel to Ireland.

 

Never said it was part of Schengen or ever has been, I said it upheld the beliefs of it and the only reason they didn't sign up was because it would have effected their agreement with the UK. As I said, Ireland believes in free movement for all not just EU citizens.

You do need a passport travelling from Spain although the thread is regarding a French port and only an I.D card is required to travel if your trip is for 90 days or less. There is a huge market for good quality fake I.D cards in France which are easily obtainable especially to those migrants walking around with top end smart phones. You can also enter the UK with a valid French I.D card. Read Regulation 11(4).

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4 minutes ago, jonno said:

Never said it was part of Schengen or ever has been, I said it upheld the beliefs of it and the only reason they didn't sign up was because it would have effected their agreement with the UK. As I said, Ireland believes in free movement for all not just EU citizens.

You do need a passport travelling from Spain although the thread is regarding a French port and only an I.D card is required to travel if your trip is for 90 days or less. There is a huge market for good quality fake I.D cards in France which are easily obtainable especially to those migrants walking around with top end smart phones. You can also enter the UK with a valid French I.D card. Read Regulation 11(4).

How many immigrants have top end smart phones? And how is that related to fake ID cards? 

I thought I was reading the Daily M*il for a minute there.

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Sorry folks, fell into the trap myself there (and posted a Brexit post).  There’s a danger this thread could become dominated by Brexit, which we don’t want to happen - so I removed my post and another of the same ilk.  I considered moving a chunk of the recent discussion about Ireland across to the Brexit thread, but really what has been posted so far kind of belongs here so I left it.  But please let’s keep this thread factual about border procedures and avoid making it political. 😉

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3 hours ago, neilcvx said:

How many immigrants have top end smart phones? And how is that related to fake ID cards? 

I thought I was reading the Daily M*il for a minute there.

With all respect Neil I think that outlook is a little naive.

Take a walk around Ouistreham especially when they're congregating at the end of the cycle path for food and water every evening and you'll see how many smart phones are about. You'll be surprised how many speak good English too. the six I saw in Lidl next to the Carrefour weren't bartering for goods they handed over euro notes.

Did you think many travel from North Africa and from further east on luck and judgement? it costs money to cross the Med' even on a pedalo, £500-£1000 is the current rate. The money is being raised somewhere.

1.5 million people have come across the med' since 2014 and they didn't cross for free. According to EUROPOL at their European Migrant Smuggling Centre some migrants are paying up to 12,000 euros for the full range of services on offer, paid for by family members still at home, how much do you think an I.D card is?

The EU have now started paying Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia to hold them, the draft statement was prepared at a summit on the 29th June. They've also altered Schengen.

What was once seen as humanitarian aid has turned into a very lucrative and sophisticated business.

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I’m not naive in the slightest I know a lot about the migration issues in France and the reality is often a lot more complicated than plucking a “”it costs this figure to cross the med “ stastistc out of the Daily M*il handbook.

Talking about fake id.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/12/french-police-accused-falsifying-migrants-documents-can-send/

And there’s plenty die in their attempt to get to France whether it crossing the Alps from Italy or drowning in the sea before they reach Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/03/migrant-death-rate-mediterranean-rises-despite-fewer-crossings/

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16 hours ago, jonno said:

Never said it was part of Schengen or ever has been, I said it upheld the beliefs of it and the only reason they didn't sign up was because it would have effected their agreement with the UK. As I said, Ireland believes in free movement for all not just EU citizens.

You do need a passport travelling from Spain although the thread is regarding a French port and only an I.D card is required to travel if your trip is for 90 days or less. There is a huge market for good quality fake I.D cards in France which are easily obtainable especially to those migrants walking around with top end smart phones. You can also enter the UK with a valid French I.D card. Read Regulation 11(4).

That's how I understood it, perhaps I misunderstood your original post, you seemed to be implying that Ireland was a backdoor to the UK, which given both allow travel on an EU ID card, isn't the case.

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10 hours ago, neilcvx said:

I’m not naive in the slightest I know a lot about the migration issues in France and the reality is often a lot more complicated than plucking a “”it costs this figure to cross the med “ stastistc out of the Daily M*il handbook.

Talking about fake id.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/12/french-police-accused-falsifying-migrants-documents-can-send/

And there’s plenty die in their attempt to get to France whether it crossing the Alps from Italy or drowning in the sea before they reach Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/03/migrant-death-rate-mediterranean-rises-despite-fewer-crossings/

Nothing from any newspaper, the Daily M*il figures are probably much higher... You should know by now that the only topic I read about in any newspaper is the football results. 

I agree, the death toll is criminal in itself.

The EU itself has added to the problem by forcing Nigeria to adopt Law 2015/36. Yes, arrests and vehicle confiscations make good reading but Nigeria has an informal economy and whether we like it or not human smuggling is part of the state apparatus, many van and bus operators are involved so too are the army, they see bribery and racketeering as a lesser evil than destabilisation.  The law has created more poverty and has made migrants seek more dangerous routes.

A local councillor from Agadez, Mahamed Alhousseini, has said and I quote:

"Nothing works now. The whole economy of the town is ruined because of this migration crackdown dictated to our country by Europe"

The EU funded International Organisation for Migration - IOM published a figure of just 1525 migrants passing through Séguédine, the main route to Libya and Arlit, the main route to Algeria. Brussels jumped on it issuing press releases trumpeting their success as they're pressurising Mali, Ethiopia, Niger and Senegal to adopt the same law. The figure was wrong... It was actually 11,457, no real difference from the 12,000 the month before.

All it's done is create more dangerous routes bypassing Arlit and Séguédine and the IOM's data collection points. Deaths in the desert are rising. In a further evasion move smugglers and migrants travel at night and off the main roads making the trip even more treacherous.

In Agadez what was once open trade is now underground. The Chief of Mission for the IOM, Guiseppe Loprete, has said that although the established houses now only see 10% of migrants the rest are going somewhere.

Agadez has always been a historical transit point until the  2015 law Africa had a system very similar to Schengen, a freedom of movement law was passed years ago by ECOWAS and the transport of migrants wasn't a crime.

Abdourahamane Koutata, president of the Agadez region youth council said and again I quote:

"Before this witch hunt for migrant smugglers began, the young people of Agadez had work. Each Monday they would transport migrants into Libya and Algeria and earn a lot of money"

A senior research fellow, I forget his name,  at the The Global Initiative against Transnational Organised Crime has said, and yes I quote again: 

"EU policymakers have failed to understand the extent migrant smuggling in the Agadez region is part of their broader political economy. The revenues generated by this industry touch way more than the smugglers, it branches out to drivers and Ghetto owners, (ghetto meaning an area occupied by a minority group or a segregated area). The Nigerian government has admitted that local police and military rely on smuggling to collect rent and taxes. Any major policy intervention like this is going to have repercussions we might not be prepared for."

The EU are using the Emergency Trust Fund for Africa to "help the visible and rapid creation of alternative incomes", it doesn't say what "alternative incomes".

Sophie Wolpers based in the University of Amsterdam works on the impacts of EU securitisation policies in the Agadez region and believes that farming  is the alternative. however she says: 

"But the effects of desertification means farming doesn't make sense there, Agadez has always been a trading hub, so trying to turn these people into farmers isn't going to work."

She also says that being a driver was a lot more profitable than the alternatives and smugglers would just pass on the greater risks and additional costs to migrants.

Lopete of IOM has said that smugglers had tripled their prices since the crackdown.

Hamadou Tchierno of Alternative Association Citizen Space which is a human rights NGO has deep concerns about the crackdown.

"These laws which authorises the restriction of the migratory flow in Agadez is born out of European policies against illegal immigration. It's because of the barriers placed in their way that the irregular migrants take enormous risks and regularly end up dead."

Public perception is really skewed, for instance Italy has 10 times less migrants per capita than Sweden or Malta and 5 times fewer than Austria and there is a large imbalance in distribution of asylum seekers. The EU  don't even have a shared structural policy and there's no common asylum procedure either. The maximum duration of a regular procedure in Holland is 8 days, 33 days in Italy, 45 days in the UK and 180 days in France and Austria. The final decision takes 6 months in the UK, less than 9 months in Holland and an average of 2 years in Italy and Germany. 

Fair to say that little lot isn't from the Daily M*il.

Edited by jonno

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I hope this is the right topic. I was in Santander on Wednesday evening for the return to Plymouth which was three hours delayed. The Guardia Civil were checking vehicles in the lanes and noting details of all empty vehicles (a lot of people had done what we had and gone into town). After we cleared Passport Control an immigrant was frog marched down towards the terminal building. A general comment is that it is very easy to straddle the wall where the tugs are moored and gain access to parked vehicles.

As a side note due to the delay the first class restaurant was closed but the second class remained open!!!!

 

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45 minutes ago, IanN said:

I hope this is the right topic. I was in Santander on Wednesday evening for the return to Plymouth which was three hours delayed. The Guardia Civil were checking vehicles in the lanes and noting details of all empty vehicles (a lot of people had done what we had and gone into town). After we cleared Passport Control an immigrant was frog marched down towards the terminal building. A general comment is that it is very easy to straddle the wall where the tugs are moored and gain access to parked vehicles.

As a side note due to the delay the first class restaurant was closed but the second class remained open!!!!

 

They have a problem with migrants crossing into Spain then heading north. They're attempting to gain access to the ferries, breaking into vehicles once at sea. It's why many of the covers are raised on the lifeboats, security are wandering around the boat deck during loading and then the crossing and why at Zierbena Pelican has her stern ramps raised when not actively loading.

What are the 1st and 2nd class restaurants. Do you mean the a la carte and the self service?

Edited by jonno

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That got me has well 1 st class and 2 nd class restaurants?i use both of them and find fine.i use the so called 1 st restaurant for breakfast and the so called 2 nd class restaurant for the rest of the day.it comes across a bit of upper class and 2 nd class passengers.

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We passed through Ouistreham Saturday evening, I don't think my wife could be persuaded to go that route again.  Lots of would be migrants roaming about, chasing lorries and vans around, she found it intimidating, particularly after seeing the gendarmes arrive to deal with damage to a car parked near to our own on the public car park in front of the cafes.  (We had a very nice meal in Le Phare)

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Hi

What are the 1st and 2nd class restaurants. Do you mean the a la carte and the self service?

It was a tongue in check response to a previous post which was a supposed wind up regarding the two ends of the boat by another member.

My wife and I mainly eat in the self service as we do not want to stand in line back to the centre of the boat just to book at table but do enjoy

La Flora when we do not have to que or sit outside in the Piano Bar

  

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29 minutes ago, IanN said:

Hi

What are the 1st and 2nd class restaurants. Do you mean the a la carte and the self service?

It was a tongue in check response to a previous post which was a supposed wind up regarding the two ends of the boat by another member.

My wife and I mainly eat in the self service as we do not want to stand in line back to the centre of the boat just to book at table but do enjoy

La Flora when we do not have to que or sit outside in the Piano Bar

  

We always pre book a table in La Flora online about six weeks before sailing.

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A curfew is currently in place each night in Ouistreham after a series of violent confrontations between local youths and migrants. It concerns those under 18 and runs from 10pm to 6am. It will remain in place until the 4th December. 

https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/tensions-entre-migrants-et-habitants-la-ville-de-ouistreham-instaure-un-couvre-feu-1577365.html

Ed

Edited by Cabin-boy
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4 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

A curfew is currently in place each night in Ouistreham after a series of violent confrontations between local youths and migrants. It concerns those under 18 and runs from 10pm to 6am. It will remain in place until the 4th December. 

https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/tensions-entre-migrants-et-habitants-la-ville-de-ouistreham-instaure-un-couvre-feu-1577365.html

Ed

Ouistreham is fast becoming a war zone and it's so sad. I travelled to the UK early on Monday morning and was surprised to see not one migrant on the way to the terminal. Returning yesterday afternoon they were back in considerable force, making pretty desperate efforts to flag down and jump on passing HGV's heading to the ship. Someone will get either killed or seriously injured at some stage as truckers won't slow down for them, they just plough on until reaching the relative safety of the port area....:S

Chris

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you really have to wonder how long the French Authorities can continue to ignore this problem. Its not Britain`s problem, its theirs. The Police overtime bill will be eye watering. They could and should have rounded the immigrants up and registered them, but as neither they nor the immigrants wanted this, they didn`t take the course of action the should have. The result is a mess, desperate young men living in ditches,an unheard of curfew in a lovely Normandie town, lawlessness and an unwillingness by people to stay or even pass through the port/town. Ouistreham was always a great place to stay whilst visiting the war sites in particular. 

   We considered this route whilst planning next years visit, but decided to play safe with the St Malo route..I wonder how many others did/will do?..very sad for all concerned.

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43 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

Someone will get either killed or seriously injured at some stage as truckers won't slow down for them, they just plough on until reaching the relative safety of the port area

That was exactly my feeling too about three weeks ago when I arrived there on a wet and windy night. They are hard to spot, the streetlighting is poor and they cross without looking or deliberately to slow the traffic down, thereby making climbing aboard easier. Ed. 

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I was at Ouistreham a few weeks ago in the afternoon  on my way back to the UK  and a large group were on the beach and then they walked back to the port  when  the ship came in. This is the first time I have seen them on the beach in such large numbers and I did feel nervous walking back to the ferry along the path  at the same time.

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Into Ouistreham again on the overnight MSM last Friday. A very light loading but passport control was incredibly slow, rather like Poole used to be, with slow scanning of passports. We're back out again on Tuesday, and fully expect the extra passport checks we had last time. To be fair there was no sign of The Blokes on Friday morning ... not sure where they are hanging out this time of year ... there is a lot more razor wire round the terminal though

But Les Gilets Jaunes were busy manifesting and having pallet bonfires in Coutances yesterday. No mucking about with foreign cars though, just wave your gilet and shout "Solidarite" and you get the big Norman smiles and a wave through the barricades.

Ooh. we do live in Interesting Times ...

 

 

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This morning we arrived at Ouistreham on Normandie as foot passengers and took the lift down from the gangway to the bus pick-up-point. As we were waiting outside for the bus to come back for us, around 30 yards to our right two gendarmes were putting 'a coloured chap' (as my grandmother would have said) into their car. He didn't appear to have any bags and it looked like he had been brought over from the truck waiting area. I don't know if he had scaled a fence and tried to climb aboard a vehicle or had slipped through the filter at the port entrance. They drove him away with lights flashing. Ed. 

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