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(Yet) Another Red funnel crash

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1 hour ago, Khaines said:

Ummmmmm, not only just travelled on them, have spent many years discussing them with people in the know, so I consider myself of goid knowledge.  I have a large knowledge base.  My opinion on the differing size of the ferries is just that, an opinion.  Spent many years discussing the Wight ferries, here and a lot of other places.  I have travelled on them all, yes, and am in a qualified position to form an OPINION on how I feel their sizes are. 

Technical details as well...🙄

Knowledge and opinion are 2 different things. Your knowledge should tell you that your opinion is wrong.

Technical details 🤔... Why would measurements be useful in comparison of 2 objects eh....!

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Gareth,

Cowes is a much more congested and tricky entrance than even Lymington or Yarmouth. To be fair, all the Solent ports need care and awareness when navigating them but the channel into Cowes can be a bit of a nightmare sometimes - think traffic at the Arc de Triomphe roundabout and you will get the idea!

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Seeing it is a Bash Brigitte day...  Getting fed up with it all on here, honestly today, I sm ferling quite picked on at the moment.  Sorry that my opinions are that bad.  

Edited by Khaines
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Oh, I know Colin, I quite agree.  Particularly, as you mentioned in a previous post, due to the strong cross-tide across the entrance.  But that’s something that the Red Funnel skippers should be well used to dealing with.  And, in absoulte terms, it is a rather wider entrance than Lymington. Similar amounts of traffic but at this time of year the traffic will be nothing compared with what they have to deal with in mid-summer.

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Brigitte, we all respect your postings and you are a valued member of the forum. I can accept that the Wight class might feel bigger than they actually are but you can't get away from the vital statistics!

I think you are right to highlight the vulnerability of the Poole route to Brexit circumstances which may well impact on the Cherbourg end. Hopefully it will not come to that. Poole - Cherbourg is in a a fine economic balance at the moment and it would be a shame if Brexit were to close down the option of a route which is valued by a lot of people.

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Gareth, it will ber very interesting to see the outcome of the MAIB enquiry. As you say, Red Funnel are totally familiar with the hazards of Cowes entrance so, without the benefit of further information it is hard to understand why Red Falcon should have deviated so far from its normal course.

Whilst both Cowes and Lymington are very congested in Summer I think that Lymington is easier as yachts simply need to pass on the outside of the piles in the channel to be sure of avoiding the ferries whereas at Cowes it is a total free for all with boats criss crossing in all directions. Likewise at Portsmouth, as long as you comply with the instructions to use the small boat channel on the western side you will not be in danger from any of the large ships using the main channel.

At Fishbourne small craft just need to keep to the west of the piles to avoid the ferries. Yarmouth can be difficult as the tide can carry you past the entrance if you are not careful but again the small boat channel into the harbour is well separated from the ferry approach.

Cowes is definitely the awkward one! (and you can score a jackpot on the floating bridge too if you are not careful!)

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Actually, another feature of Cowes that might be relevant is that it can be less obvious to small craft skippers where the entrance channel is and I can see that it could be quite easy to lose “positional awareness”.  There is quite a big “pottering around” area in the entrance, most of which is navigable by small craft at most states of the tide, and only a small part of which consists of the entrance channel.  If memory serves, that entrance channel is, itself, only marked by one or two pairs of (quite small) channel makers.  So it is quite conceivable that small boats that are pottering around in that area could easily stray into the entrance channel without really realising where they are.  Especially if carried into it by aforementioned cross tides.

Contrast with Lymington and Portsmouth, where it is crystal clear where the deep water channel is in relation to you.

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28 minutes ago, cvabishop said:

Brigitte, we all respect your postings and you are a valued member of the forum. I can accept that the Wight class might feel bigger than they actually are but you can't get away from the vital statistics!

I think you are right to highlight the vulnerability of the Poole route to Brexit circumstances which may well impact on the Cherbourg end. Hopefully it will not come to that. Poole - Cherbourg is in a a fine economic balance at the moment and it would be a shame if Brexit were to close down the option of a route which is valued by a lot of people.

Thsnks, Colin, we’ll draw a line under the comments about the Cowes ferries from my angle.  I am happy to do that.  It is on top of the Poole bashing yet again thst is getting me down.  I pick the Echo up, and see something Brexit related which  I think is important to share here and then get grief about Poole AGAIN.  It does get you down, no need for it if it is in direct connection with the thread and is just exactly what BF have said in a press release anyway.  I thought the Poole/Barfleur  bashing days were over, obviously not.  Then I come here and see a load of derision.  Why have people got to be so nasty.

 As said, forget my comments above about the sizes of ferries, we can move on from that.  But I would like to be able to post important information without getting it in the neck because it is Poole.

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Gareth, yes with most ports it is mainly in and out but Cowes is very different, You have a stream of traffic of craft of all shapes and sizes transiting in and out of the River Medina. The Red Funnel car ferries cut across the channel to and from East Cowes while the Red Jets head over to West Cowes. Both take up a lot of room when berthing and leaving.

Ther are marinas and anchorages on both sides of the entrance and into the river so you have small craft approaching from the east bound for a mooring on the west side and vice versa. The small craft include sedate yachts and Hooray Henry power boats doing umpteen knots. There are also craft moving up and down the Solent across the harbour mouth close inshore and on top of all that you may well have some sort of yacht race going on. Oh, and yes, there is the floating bridge which causes small craft to bunch in the entrance to the Medina. It's no place for the faint hearted!

All good fun though... I never hit anything.

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That boat that sank was a 1970s one, cannot remember what her name is, the owner is understandably upset as she was his pride and joy.  She was named on BBC News, but forgotton what it was.

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Not to mention the entrance and exit to the Thorn Channel, which involves large ships starting / finishing making their critical sharp 120 degree turns more or less right outside the entrance to Cowes harbour.

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Yes, seen the old Queen Mary doing that but not from a boat. You certainly need to be careful in a yacht as one moment some huge container ship is miles away and the next moment it is bearing down on you.

The Solent and Spithead have been likened to a motorway with bikes and pushchairs etc. crossing the traffic! They say that if you can sail there you can sail anywhere. There is a lot of truth in that.

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1 hour ago, Khaines said:

Seeing it is a Bash Brigitte day...  Getting fed up with it all on here, honestly today, I sm ferling quite picked on at the moment.  Sorry that my opinions are that bad.  

Not bashing you. But since you posted something patently wrong, refused to see clear facts and then claimed you were "qualified" as you had travelled on the ferries it was right to challenge you on this.

Note though that I challenged what you said, not you as a person. I don't know you from Adam but only know what you post online.

And I've never mentioned Brexit!

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I was thinking about this earlier. Mind went back to the incident involving Red Jet 5 and Hythe Knock Buoy. I know the commander of RJ5 was dismissed/ resigned but was there ever an MAIB investigation? I don't remember reading one but would have thought the incident serious enough to warrant a full investigation and report?

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Looking at the screen shot, dates and bbc news clips, two incidents with the Falcon, one with the Eagle, but the Eagle one isn’t being investigated, I’m I reading that correctly?

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I remember an RF incident a few years ago when they crashed into the linkspan in Soton, was something to do with decoupling the two Voith units so when they hit reverse thrust only one activated whilst the other pushed them merrily forwards. The rather odd diversion might suggest this kind of issue, but no doubt the MAIB will get to the bottom of it.

The circumstances of the motor cruiser incident would suggest (under COLREGS) that RF was not at fault, unless the cruiser was stationary at the time (although questionable reasons as to why they would be in the channel), but bad timing for sure!

I don't think they are investigating the other one as no significant damage was incurred other than a channel marker (the catamaran they clipped was barely damaged)

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The criterion for triggering an investigation is singular - nothing to do with the seriousness of what happened or level of damage incurred.  It is purely down to whether the incident was reported.  If no-one reports it, the MAIB cannot investigate it.  They cannot trigger investigations themselves just because they think an incident  should be looked into.

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10 hours ago, Gareth said:

The criterion for triggering an investigation is singular - nothing to do with the seriousness of what happened or level of damage incurred.  It is purely down to whether the incident was reported.  If no-one reports it, the MAIB cannot investigate it.  They cannot trigger investigations themselves just because they think an incident  should be looked into.

So RF nor RNLI nor Cowes Harbour Commissioners reported the incident with Eagle? Despite boats being left to drift freely?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-45668860

 

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