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BobCrox

Brexit effect on BF

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There is a contradiction in the quotes, we seem to have 50% uplift on the 2 routes and 19 return crossings. It doesn't make sense.

50% uplift would mean 11 return crossings per week (22 single ones). Given that this has to be in place for April, I suspect that it will just be an extra single crossing per day on all 3 routes with a few missed off for crew changes.

 

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2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

They could also rename Barfleur at the same time. I suggest No-Deal Seaways. Ed. 😀 

I appear to have plagiarised a joke on the parallel thread. Apologies! Ed

Just need to fit the No in...😂

42249CB2-286D-4628-B3B8-2B1B08817F7D.jpeg

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3 hours ago, jonno said:

Are BF the only ferry company involved in this?

It appears that both the Seabourne and DFDS awards are for freight only services from Immingham & Felixstowe.

19 additional return sailings is essentially 38 crossings, BF will need more than one additional charter as the likes of Barfy on arguably the shortest route can't do Poole-Cherbourg-Poole-Cherbourg in 24 hours. With berthing kept to a minimum it's around 6 hours per trip and then she'd need to be flat out... and that's not considering the the tidal constraints which can effect the timetable by up to an hour.

I doubt we'll see Oscar Wilde sailing for BF, they need freight heavy Ropax not cruise ferries with limited headroom.

So... Gentlemen, start your search engines!

Barfleur did 4 sailings a day six days a week (one day with just 2) between 1992 and 2009... I see no reason why this couldn't happen again?

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23 minutes ago, quibby said:

Barfleur did 4 sailings a day six days a week (one day with just 2) between 1992 and 2009... I see no reason why this couldn't happen again?

Would she be, mechanically, up to such an increased service, possibly for an indeterminate period of time, as things stand at present?

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I think she will be ok, she will do more overnight crossings. I think we should expect Cotentin to make a return, but she may not operate from Poole.

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Maybe useful, but would depend on the terms on which Cotentin is chartered to Stena. If Stena want to keep her, forcing the issue might not be in BF`s interest. After all they are making good money on the charter.

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Of course, and indeed with the charter arrangements for the e-flexers, they will need to look at the bigger picture...that said I struggle to see how the government contract can be fulfilled without bringing in extra tonnage, probably a couple of vessels, probably needed for a couple of years.  Could be an interesting couple of months...and they will need Honfleur delivered on time!

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What do you think about that ?

DAY 1

LE HAVRE > PORTSMOUTH

9:30 > 14:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

23:30 > 8:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

PORTSMOUTH > LE HAVRE

16:00 > 22:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

23:30 > 8:00 BAIE DE SEINE / GALICIA > from Santander Portsmouth

DAY 2

LE HAVRE > PORTSMOUTH

9:30 > 14:00 BAIE DE SEINE / GALICIA > to Portsmouth Santander

16:00 > 22:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

PORTSMOUTH > LE HAVRE 

9:30 > 14:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

23:30 > 8:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

DAY 3

LE HAVRE > PORTSMOUTH

9:30 > 14:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

23:30 > 8:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

PORTSMOUTH > LE HAVRE

16:00 > 22:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

23:30 > 8:00 SALAMANCA > from Bilbao Portsmouth

DAY 4

LE HAVRE > PORTSMOUTH

9:30 > 14:00 SALAMANCA > to Portsmouth Bilbao

16:00 > 22:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

PORTSMOUTH > LE HAVRE

9:30 > 14:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

23:30 > 8:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

DAY 5

LE HAVRE > PORTSMOUTH

9:30 > 14:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

23:30 > 8:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

PORTSMOUTH > LE HAVRE

16:00 > 22:00 ETRETAT / NORMANDIE

23:30 > 8:00 BAIE DE SEINE / GALICIA > from Santander Portsmouth

[…]

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6 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Chris mentioned a rumour relating to her last week so maybe that's what's happening.

This is what he said:

'I have no concrete news that the Oscar Wilde has been sold, and although we're delivering to her on Thurdsay I'm sure the crew wouldn't know either because the company are keeping things extremely close to their chests at the moment. I still can't see IF willingly give up 30 lucrative slots into Roscoff so if it's not from Rosslare we could think out of the box and consider another port(s). I have my own ideas on this but can't say anything just yet.'

So maybe they have chartered (or bought) her. 

Ed. 

FW currently enjoying a large G&T in Franschhoek, Western Cape where the temperature was 34 degrees today - sorry ....:ph34r:

Since that post things have moved on considerably Ed, especially the comment about IF giving up their Roscoff slots. My rumour mill at the time was hinting at a possible IF Cork - France service but with the Oscar Wilde apparently now sold ( there was some very keen Mediterranean interest earlier this year) that would appear to be all hot air and IF now appear to have given up those slots.

We will find out sooner or later where she’s gone but I can’t see BF taking her. Armorique, Barfleur and Etretat making one extra sailing per day makes sense and maybe a chartered Vicentini in a freight only role at Ouistreham to cater for these 19 supplementary round trips. But from halfway around the world it all seems like very last minute, crisis management....

Chris

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LHC - any schedule needs to cover a 7-day period.  What is happening in Days 6 and 7 of your suggestion?  Are these light days to allow for crew changes.  On the subject of crew changes, the weekly visits of the Spanish vessels (which are for the purpose of crew change) will almost certainly need turnrounds of more than 90 minutes.

The other thought is that a weekly call at Le Havre will not enable the Spanish vessels to cover 3 weekly round trips to Spain, and 3 weekly round trips is almost certainly the intention given that one of them is due to replace CF.  For that reason, I agree with previous posters that the weekly French crew change call will almost certainly be at Roscoff and not Le Havre.  I cannot see the e-flexers being the answer to any need that there may be for expanding services to Le Havre - that will need another, dedicated, vessel.

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3 hours ago, hhvferry said:

When is/was Etretat due to be returned to Stena RoRo? 

In June 2019 after Honfleur arrives. Pelican is due to return in February 2019 and BDS in April 2020.

I was wondering whether I.F plan to use Oscar Wilde at Dublin enabling them to return Epsilon to Cartour?

The only other Visentini I think is available is Baja's California Star but I think they want a sale. The returned Egeria has recently gone back to Adria for another 12 months... if she technically ever left in the first place.

There's not much out there.

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26 minutes ago, Gareth said:

LHC - any schedule needs to cover a 7-day period.  What is happening in Days 6 and 7 of your suggestion?  Are these light days to allow for crew changes.  On the subject of crew changes, the weekly visits of the Spanish vessels (which are for the purpose of crew change) will almost certainly need turnrounds of more than 90 minutes.

The other thought is that a weekly call at Le Havre will not enable the Spanish vessels to cover 3 weekly round trips to Spain, and 3 weekly round trips is almost certainly the intention given that one of them is due to replace CF.  For that reason, I agree with previous posters that the weekly French crew change call will almost certainly be at Roscoff and not Le Havre.  I cannot see the e-flexers being the answer to any need that there may be for expanding services to Le Havre - that will need another, dedicated, vessel.

with a duo ETRETAT / NORMANDIE it is possible to offer the same schedules as in Ouistreham.

 

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37 minutes ago, Fine Whine said:

FW currently enjoying a large G&T in Franschhoek, Western Cape

In Franschhoek you should be drinking wine.

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3 minutes ago, LHCity said:

with a duo ETRETAT / NORMANDIE it is possible to offer the same schedules as in Ouistreham.

 

Etretat / Normandie is one vessel in your proposed schedule.

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OK, I understand the plan for Le Havre.

But from Plymouth on the Saturday overnight run  I just have the horrid feeling that my leisurely 1000 arrival in Roacoff on a Sunday morning will turn into an 0630 arrival,  while the ship re loads and goes straight back.

 Be warned...I shall cancel 😡

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48 minutes ago, jonno said:

In June 2019 after Honfleur arrives. Pelican is due to return in February 2019 and BDS in April 2020. 

I was wondering whether I.F plan to use Oscar Wilde at Dublin enabling them to return Epsilon to Cartour? 

The only other Visentini I think is available is Baja's California Star but I think they want a sale. The returned Egeria has recently gone back to Adria for another 12 months... if she technically ever left in the first place. 

There's not much out there. 

So if BF just keep Etratat and run her opposite Normandie, plus squeeze a bit more out of Barfleur and Armorique they could be able to get to the 19 without bringing in other additional tonnage. Especially if they went to a three round trips a day Le Havre schedule as in the P&O days (which would be operationally unbalanced but so be it).

There is clearly a gap between March and June but that's potentially manageable through a short term charter if need be - stuff should be available as long as it gets back to the regular operator in time for July onwards. A lot would depend on Honfleur being on time! Hell they could just grab the Maria Grazia Onorato as she sails past.

Edited by hhvferry
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I could be wrong but my best guess...

Roscoff - returns to 3 sailings a day (prior to 2013/14). Pont-Aven rotates on Fridays when she normally sits in Roscoff. 4 extra sailings than today's off peak schedule. I don't feel this will be popular as I feel today's timetable is designed around what IS popular (overnights outbound, teatime returns)

Le Havre - if Normandie and Etretat ran a daily sailing opposite each other (similar to Harwich-Hook timetable), that's 7 extra sailings. Will only work after Honfleur arrives. Etretat is too slow an unloader for them to be able to do 3 sailings a day each. 

Baie de Seine crew changes in Cherbourg. (still an extra sailing)

Barfleur tries to do 2 return sailings a day like she did in the past. That's 7 extra sailings. 

That gives you 19. 

EDIT- hhv, funny timing, I didn't see your post but it looks as we have come to similar conclusions! 

Edited by georgem7

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21 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Etretat / Normandie is one vessel in your proposed schedule.

Yes, in my proposition. But if you have two boats on the same route ? NORMANDIE and ETRETAT.

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I would have thought that Plymouth - Roscoff is pretty irrelevant to any moves to relieve the pressure on Dover - Calais/Dunkerque.

This whole thing is not fundamentally about ferries but about distributing freight movements to relieve throughput at Dover. So the delays in processing freight will actually result in the Dover ferries running at under capacity with the balance being taken up further west by BF which will also probably be running at under capacity with extra sailings.

Total freight volume will not rise (and may even decline) but will be spread across more routes in a more inefficient manner with extra sailings running at under capacity.

I suppose that is regarded as progress! BF extra sailings wiol be effectively subsidised by you and I as UK taxpayers.

But, as I have said earlier, if there is a Brexit deal it may never happen.

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I'm a little surprised that there was no mention in the report of increasing services through the tunnel as well. Does anyone know if it's already at full capacity or if there is some reason why they are unable to use it more efficiently? Ed

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5 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

I'm a little surprised that there was no mention in the report of increasing services through the tunnel as well. Does anyone know if it's already at full capacity or if there is some reason why they are unable to use it more efficiently? Ed

As CVAB says, on the short sea, if we can count the tunnel as such, capacity on board is less of an issue than capacity at terminals. Does anyone know if there is significant standage or inspection space either end of the tunnel? Being opened in a post-1992 world I presume not but I've never used it.

Edited by hhvferry

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