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BobCrox

UK withdrawal from the EU: Effect on BF

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Reading the BBC item, all this will only take place if there is a no deal Brexit except that the ferry companies will get to keep a proportion of the money if there is a deal - presumably to cover their costs in making contingency plans etc. I doubt if BF or anyone else would want to commit to additional tonnage at this stage.

It may never happen!

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Was thinking the same my self Gareth, though Oscar Wild would mean a slight reduction in passenger capacity and certainly in bed capacity on St Malo; so she might be better suited to Plymouth - Roscoff, where she would offer similar capacity for passenger traffic to Amourique, but perhaps slightly more freight capacity.

tricky balance to be found!

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6 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Yes - there will certainly be a requirement for an extra ship at Roscoff and Le Havre. Barfleur will be able to deal with the extra Cherbourg traffic.  Simplest option at Le Havre will be to retain Etretat, if that is an option - though a different ship will be preferable.  I wonder if we might see Bretagne transferred to Roscoff and Oscar Wilde brought in to St Malo?

Surely they can increase Le Havre and Roscoff by 50% by adding an extra one way crossing per day, however it would cause havoc in the timetable as half of the overnights will go in the other direction.

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Another thought.  I’d have thought that, in a situation where there was a need to accommodate traffic that has moved west from Dover, there would be a case for reinstating Portsmouth-Cherbourg as a prime shuttle route.  Two ships did 4 sailings each way per day in the prime  Townsend Thoresen years.

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I can’t help feeling that LHCity’s post a few days ago (which was rather ‘poo-hoohed’ at the time) was more than prophetic and clearly based on some reliable intel.

He may not have got the whole story, but perhaps some of the doubters might feel it appropriate to acknowledge his post?

 

 

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Yes I think so too...the Quiberon and Duc used to do ten return sailings a week from Plymouth to Roscoff (compared to 7 now in low season) and the Val/Pont did two (rather than 1). I suspect the Pont could probably squeeze in three at high speed. Another option would be for Connemara to squeeze one rotation in between her Cork/Roscoff trip like the Duchesse Anne used to.

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I asked BF on twitter when we will get the new Le Havre timetable, the response was

*Good morning David, this will be discussed in the next few weeks and customers will be informed of the potential changes as soon as possible.”

 

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Has Cotentin's (Stena Baltic) time come?  Could work on freight based rotations to Cherberg from both Poole and Portsmouth; still owned by one of the BAI syndicates, so could potentially be brought back into the fold.

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I think we've fit in a lot of extra crossings on here, Barflour doing extra crossings solves Poole, Arm doing three crossings a day from Plymouth and could PA do a quick dash either way on a Friday?  Could the Spanish ships do extra crossings to Cherbourg rather than Le Havre, as it would easier to fit in?

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57 minutes ago, Gardian said:

I can’t help feeling that LHCity’s post a few days ago (which was rather ‘poo-hoohed’ at the time) was more than prophetic and clearly based on some reliable intel.

He may not have got the whole story, but perhaps some of the doubters might feel it appropriate to acknowledge his post? 

 

 

Sorry for my English translation, but yes, the source of the information was reliable because coming from the direction of the Port of Le Havre. The hypothesis of reducing the number of crossings at Ouistreham to increase waiting times at the port is also an assumption justifying the increase in frequencies at Le Havre, where the infrastructure and administration are ready ...

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Are BF the only ferry company involved in this?

It appears that both the Seabourne and DFDS awards are for freight only services from Immingham & Felixstowe.

19 additional return sailings is essentially 38 crossings, BF will need more than one additional charter as the likes of Barfy on arguably the shortest route can't do Poole-Cherbourg-Poole-Cherbourg in 24 hours. With berthing kept to a minimum it's around 6 hours per trip and then she'd need to be flat out... and that's not considering the the tidal constraints which can effect the timetable by up to an hour.

I doubt we'll see Oscar Wilde sailing for BF, they need freight heavy Ropax not cruise ferries with limited headroom.

So... Gentlemen, start your search engines!

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I’m surprised we have not seen Newhaven mentioned in connection with this plan.  Maybe being regarded as a lost cause?  But then again, maybe this would be Newhaven’s opportinity to redevelop, if there is funding available?

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See your point Jonno, but just another thought on the Oscar Wilde idea.  Say they were to acquire her and put her on the Cork-Spain & Cork Roscoff routes until the New builds arrive and release Connemara to the Plymouth-Roscoff route...that may increase the freight capacity Plymouth -Roscoff...then reintegrate Cotentin for Poole-Cherberg?

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I’m surprised we have not seen Newhaven mentioned in connection with this plan.  Maybe being regarded as a lost cause?  But then again, maybe this would be Newhaven’s opportinity to redevelop, if there is funding available?

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18 minutes ago, jonno said:

Are BF the only ferry company involved in this?

It appears that both the Seabourne and DFDS awards are for freight only services from Immingham & Felixstowe.

19 additional return sailings is essentially 38 crossings, BF will need more than one additional charter as the likes of Barfy on arguably the shortest route can't do Poole-Cherbourg-Poole-Cherbourg in 24 hours. With berthing kept to a minimum it's around 6 hours per trip and then she'd need to be flat out... and that's not considering the the tidal constraints which can effect the timetable by up to an hour.

I doubt we'll see Oscar Wilde sailing for BF, they need freight heavy Ropax not cruise ferries with limited headroom.

So... Gentlemen, start your search engines!

Barfy will find herself given more overnight crossings, and the day trips will change, I bet.

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1 minute ago, Khaines said:

Barfy will find herself given more overnight crossings, and the day trips will change, I bet.

I’d be surprised if Barfleur can regularly maintain a 4-daily-sailings schedule these days, so I agree, I suspect it will be more a case of alternating night crossings with a schedule that mostly involves 3 daily sailing - perhaps with a single day of 4 sailings to complete the 7-day pattern.

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20 minutes ago, Gareth said:

I’m surprised we have not seen Newhaven mentioned in connection with this plan.  Maybe being regarded as a lost cause?  But then again, maybe this would be Newhaven’s opportinity to redevelop, if there is funding available? 

Dieppe and Newhaven are two terminals too small. Also the dieppe / newhaven route is largely subsidized by the department of Seine Maritime and under the account of a "délégation of public service" not possible to change the service without questioning the DSP contract

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11 minutes ago, Chaplain said:

See your point Jonno, but just another thought on the Oscar Wilde idea.  Say they were to acquire her and put her on the Cork-Spain & Cork Roscoff routes until the New builds arrive and release Connemara to the Plymouth-Roscoff route...that may increase the freight capacity Plymouth -Roscoff...then reintegrate Cotentin for Poole-Cherberg?

The French seaman's union would be up in arms if the Cypriot flagged & Cypriot crewed Connemara shifted across to cover Plymouth - Roscoff, they caused enough disruption when she began sailing form Cork in the first place.

Personally I wouldn't want a 30+ year old cruise ferry sailing on the Bay of Biscay for all sorts of reasons. She may need expensive structural strengthening for starters. VDL was relatively new when BF bought her, they still needed to spend millions on her. I wouldn't consider doing the same with Bretagne either.

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5 minutes ago, Gareth said:

I’d be surprised if Barfleur can regularly maintain a 4-daily-sailings schedule these days, so I agree, I suspect it will be more a case of alternating night crossings with a schedule that mostly involves 3 daily sailing - perhaps with a single day of 4 sailings to complete the 7-day pattern.

Come on Gareth, these suspenders are killing me... I know you've already mooched around the timetables just as I've already looked to see what tonnage is available.

Show me your's and I'll show you mine...😉

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33 minutes ago, Khaines said:

Barfy will find herself given more overnight crossings, and the day trips will change, I bet.

They could also rename Barfleur at the same time. I suggest No-Deal Seaways. Ed. 😀 

I appear to have plagiarised a joke on the parallel thread. Apologies! Ed

Edited by Cabin-boy
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16 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

They could also rename Barfleur at the same time. I suggest No-Deal Seaways. Ed. 😀 

I appear to have plagiarised a joke on the parallel thread. Apologies! Ed

Yes, I think there are 3 threads covering this, a job for the nice guys at admin to bring them together.

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But if there is a deal and freight throughput is not unduly affected as a result then all this 'extra capacity' will not be required.

Also, at some point streamlined customs arrangements will inevitably be devised and put into place so long term investment in upgrading port facilities elsewhere is unlikely to happen.

I realise that everyone seems to be salivating in ecstacy at the revised timetabling and extra tonnage possibilities but it will be interesting to see just how much of what is essentially a contingency plan is actually implemented.

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

The French seaman's union would be up in arms if the Cypriot flagged & Cypriot crewed Connemara shifted across to cover Plymouth - Roscoff, they caused enough disruption when she began sailing form Cork in the first place.

Personally I wouldn't want a 30+ year old cruise ferry sailing on the Bay of Biscay for all sorts of reasons. She may need expensive structural strengthening for starters. VDL was relatively new when BF bought her, they still needed to spend millions on her. I wouldn't consider doing the same with Bretagne either.

Yes, accept your point on both vessels entirely...so if additional tonnage were required where do you envisage it coming from?

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