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Andy

Portsmouth Harbour - Barriers Installed

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Barriers at the end of the platforms would be best place and do away with footbridge thus passengers without a train ticket on a train would need a ticket to get to ferry. Fare dodgers will still be able to use the train free of charge and go straight from train to ferry. SWR don't seem to have thought of this.

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36 minutes ago, adicat said:

Barriers at the end of the platforms would be best place and do away with footbridge thus passengers without a train ticket on a train would need a ticket to get to ferry. Fare dodgers will still be able to use the train free of charge and go straight from train to ferry. SWR don't seem to have thought of this.

Trouble is last minute train changes, if you are on one platform, and they change the platform, then you have a issue, unless everyone waits just "off platform"

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It is quite a wide platform, one wonders if partitioning off a route to the ferries would have been feasible. The trains and the ferries have never much liked each other ever since they were split apart when they were both privatised.

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Apparently it’s a franchise commitment to install them (but nothing about using them), The railway company has said they won’t be operational until a plan is in place for ferry passengers to have free movement. 

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The barriers were installed at about 23:00 yesterday when I was coming back for Brighton they were putting the electrics in with the barriers all ready in place 

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Company interests trump those of the travelling public customers as usual.

If fare dodging is an issue then check the tickets on the trains - it's not rocket science!

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This open station policy dates back to BR days when Network Southeast pretty well gave up any pretence of trying to collect fares, protect revenue or indeed their property. Since taking over from SWT, SWR have visibly increased staffing levels at what they consider to be critical stations for revenue protection. (The barriers are in use at Havant most of the time these days.) There are easy solutions at Portsmouth - the easiest would be to make it possible to buy Wightlink tickets at the railway booking office and from self-service machines.  

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On 03/12/2018 at 18:48, cvabishop said:

If fare dodging is an issue then check the tickets on the trains - it's not rocket science!

Indeed this is the best solution. It does not stop people buying a single ticket one stop up the line to Portsmouth and Southsea when they are travelling much further than that. The barrier will let them through (they have a valid ticket) but it won't be detected if they are not checked on the train. Of course the rail companies might take the view that some revenue is better than none I suppose.

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20 hours ago, Millsy said:

There are easy solutions at Portsmouth - the easiest would be to make it possible to buy Wightlink tickets at the railway booking office and from self-service machines.  

You already can. Just buy a rail ticket to Ryde Pier Head or Ryde Esplanade (or any station along Island Line), which can be bought from the ticket machines and at the booking office (I think they might even be a little cheaper than the Wightlink fare). So I guess this is really only an issue for those already holding a ticket for the ferries which is not a rail ticket (such as a season ticket) or tickets that only Wightlink sell (those that also include bus travel on the island, for instance).

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They only way of doing this is too split the platform with a fence .right hand for ferries and left for trains as a lot of people that use the cat have multilink or season tickets 

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1 hour ago, joncombe said:

You already can. Just buy a rail ticket to Ryde Pier Head or Ryde Esplanade (or any station along Island Line), which can be bought from the ticket machines and at the booking office (I think they might even be a little cheaper than the Wightlink fare). So I guess this is really only an issue for those already holding a ticket for the ferries which is not a rail ticket (such as a season ticket) or tickets that only Wightlink sell (those that also include bus travel on the island, for instance).

If you’ve got a railcard, it’s certainly cheaper to buy a rail ticket Portsmouth & Southsea to Ryde Esplanade than just the ferry return, anytime day single is £11.10 and anytime day return is £14.45 with railcard discount. 

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Hello - as a longtime lurker on this fascinating forum I have finally been moved to join and comment, as barriers at Portsmouth Harbour are a pressing concern to those of us islanders who travel frequently on the Wightlink catamaran.

Our overriding concern is that there should be no impediment to a quick transfer to or from the ferry terminal, whether we are walking from The Hard or getting off a train. Delay caused by having to negotiate a barrier, perhaps while the attendant is dealing with someone else, could be the difference between catching a ferry and waiting an hour or even 85 minutes in the evening. I waste enough of my life in the unappealing Wightlink terminal area as it is, thank you.

At least the current proposal does not impede the passage of passengers between train and ferry, where we are even more likely to find ourselves running for the ferry from a late-running train. The suggestion that platform 1 could be split would presumably mean that barriers would be needed at the platform ends, which would be much worse. Imagine the chaos when a late train or ferry arrives with only seconds to make a connection. An even worse solution would be to make us walk up one side of platform 1 to barriers near the cafe and then back again.

It has been suggested that one answer would be for Wightlink tickets to be available from the ticket office or machines. In fact Portsmouth Harbour ticket office does not sell tickets to Pierhead or island stations - there is a sign directing you to the Wightlink ticket office. Nor can you buy a railway ticket to Pierhead online (why should you - no train involved) though you can get one from the Wightlink website. I cannot see why Wightlink would agree to their tickets being available from the SWR office in competition with their own ticket office, as SWR would presumably take a cut from the revenue.

The whole situation is a mess to which there seems no satisfactory answer other than more on-train inspections. It does seem extraordinary that SWR have gone ahead with the barriers without reaching an agreement with Wightlink, who I think are entirely within their rights in objecting to a change from which they gain no benefit and which will make life more complicated for their passengers, the majority of whom have no connection with SWR other than needing to walk along one of their platforms.

Incidentally, the most astonishing thing about this saga is the revelation that there is such a thing as a SWR/Wightlink liaison committee. Having suffered 25 years of non-joined up operation I find this very hard to believe!

 

 

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I said the solution is easy and it is. If the two companies can't sort out ticket sales at the point of entry to the station between themselves - or even inform each other of planned access alterations - then that's their problem .  The lack of ticket inspection linked with unrestricted access at PMH has been anomalous for years.

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It may be the company’s problem, but it then becomes the passengers’ problem, as we found when they had a spat about through ticketing years ago.

Even apart from the likely Wightlink objections I mentioned, I don’t think selling ferry tickets on the ‘landward’ side solves the problem anyway. The barriers will not read ferry tickets, and the poor chap manning the barrier will not be able or indeed empowered to check the validity of the wide variety of ferry, multilink, season tickets, attraction tickets that are used. He will have to let them all through, so no real advance in terms of revenue protection on letting through everyone who says they are going to the Wightlink terminal.

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2 hours ago, Hermit said:

It has been suggested that one answer would be for Wightlink tickets to be available from the ticket office or machines. In fact Portsmouth Harbour ticket office does not sell tickets to Pierhead or island stations - there is a sign directing you to the Wightlink ticket office. Nor can you buy a railway ticket to Pierhead online (why should you - no train involved) though you can get one from the Wightlink website. I cannot see why Wightlink would agree to their tickets being available from the SWR office in competition with their own ticket office, as SWR would presumably take a cut from the revenue.
 

Your right that you cannot buy a rail ticket between Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pier Head, sorry about that. However you can buy a ticket to Ryde Esplanade online and the ticket office are obliged to sell such a ticket (whether they want to or not). I suspect a rail ticket to Esplanade is probably cheaper than the ferry only fares that Wightlink charge in most cases.

SWR should remember that Island Line is part of their rail franchise. Therefore it's in their own interests to make the journey an interchange as conveniant as possible. For example the SWR timetable for Island line shows the connecting trains to/from London Waterloo. So I would expect that if you catch the appropriate train from London or other stations on the way nd miss that ferry and so end up on a later Island Line train you can claim "delay repay" for your journey (which you can now do with only a 15 minute delay). Whether of course SWR see it this way of course remains to be seen.

There is a similar somewhat daft situation at Guildford station. The station footbridge is a right of way (there are entrances to the station at both sides), so when they put ticket barriers in at the station, they have to let people wanting to cross the bridge through. When the barriers are in use you just say that you want to cross the bridge. They give you a "bridge pass" (a laminated bit of paper saying "Bridge Pass", last time I did it), which you then hand in to the staff at the other end side of the bridge to get back out. Of course locals are wise to this knowing they can ask for a bridge pass in order to get into the station without paying, then got on a train.

This is why I still think the solution is proper checks of tickets on the trains and not barriers. Barriers only ensure you have a valid ticket NOT that you have a valid ticket to where you are actually going!

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You can indeed claim delay repay on a through ticket from mainland stations to island stations. I have done it several times, including occasions when the delay arriving at the Harbour was not long enough to qualify but the consequential delay arriving at Ryde St Johns was.

The snag is that for frequent travellers the through tickets (even advance ones) normally work out more expensive than using  a Wightlink multilink ticket for the ferry and buying  separate rail tickets for the island and mainland legs. So delay repay doesn’t apply to the overall journey.

As you say, it should be in SWRs interest  to maintain connections, but I’ve not seen much evidence that this affects their behaviour in practice. I remember once remonstrating with a guard at Portsmouth and Southsea who was chatting to a colleague rather than waving our late running train off. It wouldn’t matter if we missed the ferry, he said, because they run ‘every ten minutes’. If only.....

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On ‎03‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 12:43, adicat said:

But after Need it free movement stops 😉

Was changed to Brexit but for some reason came up as Need it :o

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17 hours ago, Hermit said:

It may be the company’s problem, but it then becomes the passengers’ problem, as we found when they had a spat about through ticketing years ago.

Even apart from the likely Wightlink objections I mentioned, I don’t think selling ferry tickets on the ‘landward’ side solves the problem anyway. The barriers will not read ferry tickets, and the poor chap manning the barrier will not be able or indeed empowered to check the validity of the wide variety of ferry, multilink, season tickets, attraction tickets that are used. He will have to let them all through, so no real advance in terms of revenue protection on letting through everyone who says they are going to the Wightlink terminal.

Gateline staff, both Wightlink and railway, are quite used to reading all forms of ticketing from normal RSP ticket stock to smartphone screens. All that would be required is that landward side tickets issued from machines were on standard RSP stock and they'd be read by the barriers and as a matter of course by Wightlink staff who see them all the time anyway. It is not a problem - only the companies have made it one.

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5 hours ago, Millsy said:

Gateline staff, both Wightlink and railway, are quite used to reading all forms of ticketing from normal RSP ticket stock to smartphone screens. All that would be required is that landward side tickets issued from machines were on standard RSP stock and they'd be read by the barriers and as a matter of course by Wightlink staff who see them all the time anyway. It is not a problem - only the companies have made it one.

It will be interesting to see what (if any) agreement they can come to. But it’s asking a lot to expect Wightlink to accept any additional check being carried out by a third party (SWR) on their passengers who are not rail passengers. No doubt one of the things their lawyers will look at is whether there would be any legal basis for this. Nor will they want to have to take on more staff to man the barrier themselves, which would be in addition to those checking and counting in their terminal. All this to deal with a purely SWR problem, for which other remedies are available.

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There is now a message on the Wightlink website to warn that the barriers have been installed, but that Wightlink customers and visitors are not required to show a ticket to pass through. Any problems tell the Wightlink ticket office.

So it looks as though Wightlink have accepted the situation, though the extent to which the barriers will be manned or left open remains to be seen. Next time I have time to kill between ferry and train I will see whether I’m allowed through to visit the station cafe (cheaper and with a better range than the Costa in the Wightlink terminal).

As has been suggested, this looks more like a box-ticking exercise for the franchisee than an effective revenue-protection measure.

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