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Normandie not sailing as economie

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8 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Then again, the Olau twins managed a schedule of 3 daily sailings in each direction as single-level loaders, so maybe I am talking nonsense (?)

No, Two level loaders.

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Bretagne is fundamentally unsuited to the Le Havre route and couldn't be spared from there anyway.

The Cherbourg round trips in between a different, 2 ship Le Havre schedule makes sense but then again Cherbourg wasn't on the list of ports to be used was it?

So presumably, it would be a mirror of the Ouistreham operation/old P&O with 3 round trips a day or just 2 round trips. Either one needs two ships on the route but it depends how much bang for their buck BF want.

As for the second ship, Stena RoRo can offer the AF Michela with pretty prompt delivery. Bit smaller and older as far as Visentinis go but eminently suitable for the job at hand.

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Thinking about it, I wonder if the "3rd Le Havre rotation on Friday" might just be the weekly (but re-scheduled) crew change excursion for BDS?

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16 minutes ago, hhvferry said:

As for the second ship, Stena RoRo can offer the AF Michela with pretty prompt delivery. Bit smaller and older as far as Visentinis go but eminently suitable for the job at hand.

She appears to have pet-friendly cabins so what's not to like? 😀 Ed. 

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8 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Thinking about it, I wonder if the "3rd Le Havre rotation on Friday" might just be the weekly (but re-scheduled) crew change excursion for BDS?

They have to get her to France at some point during the week so they may as well keep that trip in the timetable, unless they send her to Cherbourg and back instead. Ed. 

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You'd think that, if the plan was for 3 Le Havre rotations daily, then the third set of times would be included in what LHC posted.  (They would be something like 1530 arr / 1700 dep).  But in the absence of those times, the only other thing that would make sense is the Cherbourg rotation I referred to.  (They won't have the ship just sitting in Portsmouth all day).

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11 hours ago, Gareth said:

If I was to lay a wager, I’d predict either Barfleur (with NEX going to Poole)

Not quite sure how that's going to work with BF having taken £46.6M from the government partly on the promise of increasing freight capacity between Poole and Cherbourg.

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12 minutes ago, G4rth said:

Not quite sure how that's going to work with BF having taken £46.6M from the government partly on the promise of increasing freight capacity between Poole and Cherbourg.

Agreed.  One way or another (whether it is directly for Le Havre or indirectly to enable an existing fleet member to move to Le Havre), BF will have to bring in another ship to make this plan work.

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26 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Agreed.  One way or another (whether it is directly for Le Havre or indirectly to enable an existing fleet member to move to Le Havre), BF will have to bring in another ship to make this plan work.

And will it be the extra ship be of Cruise Ferry or 'economie' standard? In terms of pricing there often isn't much difference usually around £30 difference between the 16.30 from Caen and the 17.00/17.30 from Le Havre. In my case coming from either the Vendee or Brittany theres no point driving the extra mileage to Le Havre, and travelling on an inferior vessel just to save £30.

On some occasions the Le Havre route and Caen are the exact same price, surely an argument that 'economie' is a cover for the ship rather than anything else

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First off, no one knows what's happening at Poole. BF maybe more concerned about consolidating their core business before entertaining a 2nd vessel at Le Havre.

What takes up the shortfall left by Pelican?

The way I see it is that during the next 6 months 2 Visentini's are available. Egeria has returned to Stena and is available now plus Etretat's charter can be extended post Honfleur. In the meantime Barfleur can double her rotations at Cherbourg... @hhvferry, @G4rth is right Cherbourg is one of the three routes earmarked, Roscoff & Le Havre being the other two.

One of these (Egeria) replacing Pelican gives BF options, they're faster for a start meaning that two Bilbao rotations are realistic plus one or two rotations to Cherbourg giving Barfleur some respite for crew change, a spot of maintenance or positioning.

In the interim Normandie Express can augment Le Havre by targeting pax only traffic which in turn increases freight capacity on Etretat & BDS... again the latter can add an extra PIP rotation on a Friday. From July Etretat just stays where she is partnering Normandie and NEX moves across to Cherbourg.

BF can then market the route as having both the full and the no frills service, a first for France.

If it comes to it personally I think the majority of the quoted 19 extra sailings will be spread across Cherbourg & Le Havre, both have the infrastructure and both are far closer to the EU hubs.

 

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15 minutes ago, G4rth said:

Does Portsmouth actually have much spare capacity to significantly increase sailings there?

In terms of berthing slots, yes, easily, at the times that the two additional sailings would be in port (early morning and mid-afternoon).  In terms of marshalling space, no idea.

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2 minutes ago, Gareth said:

In terms of berthing slots, yes, easily, at the times that the two additional sailings would be in port (early morning and mid-afternoon).  In terms of marshalling space, no idea.

If the port starts to get overcrowded they might have to envisage some sort of holding area in Cosham or Fratton (or further afield) to avoid problems. Ed. 

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21 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

If the port starts to get overcrowded they might have to envisage some sort of holding area in Cosham or Fratton (or further afield) to avoid problems. Ed. 

When you consider all of the truckstops around the M27, Southampton, Portsmouth and even out toward Winchester there are well over 200 spaces. The approaches into Dover have nothing, I think the nearest is Maidstone.

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It's not entirely clear when Stena Egeria/AF Michela will be available as she's still in service for now and her replacement hasn't begun her delivery voyage. But Stena would probably pull out all the stops for one of their main clients and she is the most logical ship out there to quickly beef up the fleet.

is there any indication the charter of the Pelican won't be extended? 

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14 hours ago, LHCity said:

No, Two level loaders.

The Olau twins were single deck loaders. However, their vehicle deck layout was relatively simple and allowed for a faster loading than say the Bretagne with the infamous Deck 5.

3 hours ago, G4rth said:

Not quite sure how that's going to work with BF having taken £46.6M from the government partly on the promise of increasing freight capacity between Poole and Cherbourg.

IIRC, they haven't yet 'taken' that amount and whilst they may still keep 'some' of it in the event the sailings don't need to be provided, they won't get the full amount.

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17 minutes ago, hhvferry said:

It's not entirely clear when Stena Egeria/AF Michela will be available as she's still in service for now and her replacement hasn't begun her delivery voyage. But Stena would probably pull out all the stops for one of their main clients and she is the most logical ship out there to quickly beef up the fleet.

is there any indication the charter of the Pelican won't be extended? 

Yes I agree plus there's more than enough time until the end of March... 

Pelican...Her new parent company have publicly stated that they want her back at the end of the charter. BF were very quick to release a presser stating that she's been secured until February 2018 and even quicker to release another soon after saying it's extended to February/March 2019, that was just over two years ago, there's been nothing since. Her timetable also ends at the end of March.

 

 

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Pelican is staying according to a BF source I know of in Poole.  Maybe she will be getting a new timetable as the end of March as far as things are is Brexit. Due to BF’s Government award, they could be in the process of changing what she’ll be doing?

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On 11/01/2019 at 11:12, Cabin-boy said:

If the port starts to get overcrowded they might have to envisage some sort of holding area in Cosham or Fratton (or further afield) to avoid problems. Ed. 

PCC have a commitment to taking over the land at Tipner firing ranges for redevelopment they are just waiting for the MOD to release the land to them, if it should be No Deal’ the Concil want to use this land as a lorry park. 

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