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quibby

Normandie not sailing as economie

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On 29/12/2018 at 15:22, quibby said:

I found this on the french website as a PDF brochure, showing Normandie will not be branded as economie.

 

 

Screenshot_20181229-151411.png

I don't see how Normande could suddenly be rebranded as economie anyway... even though expected standards have changed since 1992, Normandie has many of the things which BF specifically tell you are not present on economie ships... i.e a proper restaurant, larger public spaces, decent choice in the shops, large bar. If they suddenly called her economie, her sailing tariff would also have to be reduced too, and the million passengers or so who have travelled on her in past years would surely feel a tad cheated?

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22 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Absolutely hf - not sure how it could have occurred to anyone that Normandie might be branded Economie.

Only because that's what people had been speculating and because the pricing structure hasn't appeared to change despite Normandie replacing Etretat. I never thought it would become economie although it did occur to me that they might have mothballed the restaurant, cinema, cafe and kiosque allowing them to reduce staff in a similar manner to Barfleur (which I know isn't economie but isn't far off facilities wise).

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I my self living near to Le Havre, have been longing for the Economie brand to go and the tat with it but we will still be left with BDS, for a time yet.

The bad part on the brand is the dirty look it has about it from the outside with so much dark blue.

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Time will tell.  The fact that they trialled bow-in must be an indication that this is their preferred mode, if it works.  (They already know stern-in works).

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2 hours ago, hf_uk said:

On a similar note. To me Honfleur is bascally a big Armorique with an extra deck.However, Honfleur has a larger GRT than Pont Aven, and Pont Aven feels significantly spacious to me (in terms of passenger space) - even though she crams in over 650 cabins. Honfleur will have around only 1/3rd of that in terms of cabins, so I am expecting her to feel rather spacious indeed on the inside,,,

I think she will feel spacious - most particularly  in the car decks!

Mont St Michel is marginally larger than Val de Loire, but again far fewer cabins, no swimming pool, no observation lounge etc. Her car decks are cavenous though and that’s where all the space went; grt measures enclosed space so that includes car decks.

If you look at the ex Olau pair to Le Havre, they’re now with GNV (brand merged with SNAV, both are owned by MSC), they took the cabins out along the car decks and resulted in a huge increase in freight and car capacity, partly due to the lane meterage but also because air doesn’t weigh a lot whilst cabin units and the associated services are heavy. Trucks weigh a lot but they replace the cabins and likely earn a lot more per square metre and have the advantage that the company doesn’t need to clean them (although it seems they don’t bother cleaning them on Bretagne either 😂).

I think the other indication is that MSM has a certificate for 2,200 passengers whilst Honfleur is being built for 1,600.

Honfleur will basically be a big truck and car carrier.

(But not as big as that new Irish Ferries Holyhead ship, at 67,000 and with at least 3 double height vehicle decks plus an outdoor lorry deck at the the stern, that thing is massive.)

Edited by Seashore

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On 02/01/2019 at 20:58, Gareth said:

Absolutely hf - not sure how it could have occurred to anyone that Normandie might be branded Economie.

It would be easy enough just to close facilities - to reduce the costs and say it's economie. Shut the a-la-carte and you could magically add a large lounge. Don't open the Salon de The. Bazinga... you've got an economie service.

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46 minutes ago, Jim said:

It would be easy enough just to close facilities - to reduce the costs and say it's economie. Shut the a-la-carte and you could magically add a large lounge. Don't open the Salon de The. Bazinga... you've got an economie service.

Hmmmm - sort of - although Economie is not just about the services available, it’s about the calibre and comfort of the ship.  If just closing the restaurant made the ship Economie then Armorique would be Economie too.  So, I agree, some loss of facility could cut some costs, but I don’t think by themselves that would take the ship down to an Economie-calibre ship.

The glaring issue that I’m surprised hasn’t attracted comment is that there is no difference in the tariffs being charged for Etretat and Normandie.  Try to book a sailing on Etretat’s last day, and then again on Normandie’s first day, and you’ll find the price is the same....

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45 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Hmmmm - sort of - although Economie is not just about the services available, it’s about the calibre and comfort of the ship.  If just closing the restaurant made the ship Economie then Armorique would be Economie too.  So, I agree, some loss of facility could cut some costs, but I don’t think by themselves that would take the ship down to an Economie-calibre ship.

The glaring issue that I’m surprised hasn’t attracted comment is that there is no difference in the tariffs being charged for Etretat and Normandie.  Try to book a sailing on Etretat’s last day, and then again on Normandie’s first day, and you’ll find the price is the same....

Absolutely. Essentially Armorique is 'no-frills' - but with her public spaces and comfort levels she certainly isn't economie!

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46 minutes ago, Gareth said:

The glaring issue that I’m surprised hasn’t attracted comment is that there is no difference in the tariffs being charged for Etretat and Normandie.  Try to book a sailing on Etretat’s last day, and then again on Normandie’s first day, and you’ll find the price is the same....

That rather points to the fact that without a set tariff the whole Economie thing was nothing more than a smoke and mirrors marketing exercise.

 

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Just now, G4rth said:

That rather points to the fact that without a set tariff the whole Economie thing was nothing more than a smoke and mirrors marketing exercise.

 

My thinking exactly 😉

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1 hour ago, Gareth said:

Try to book a sailing on Etretat’s last day, and then again on Normandie’s first day, and you’ll find the price is the same....

So, you are getting a bargain then. Or have been overpaying for the last three years. Ed. 

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29 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

So, you are getting a bargain then. Or have been overpaying for the last three years. Ed. 

OR - the revenue people overlooked it and it will change?!

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23 minutes ago, G4rth said:

That rather points to the fact that without a set tariff the whole Economie thing was nothing more than a smoke and mirrors marketing exercise.

 

I don't know whether it was smoke and mirrors.

I think that BF did it as a sort of disclaimer to offer a degree of separation between the Visentini and the other ships. They didn't really want the full BF brand to be associated with such a standard of vessel, the only one they could lay their hands on. 

The only reason BDS has Economie on her is that she has a limited onboard service to Spain. If she sailed to France there would be no difference in quality and customer offer to that of Barfleur. I've said it before, her Plus cabins are furnished to a similar standard to that of the Commodore's and of equal size and the lounge many of them open on to is a fine place to spend an afternoon reading, doing a crossword or perusing BFe on t'interweb. the catering is of a good standard and there's also a Petit Marche similar to the Cap'

I doubt we'll see it'll stay once both ships return to their owners.

 

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1 minute ago, jonno said:

I don't know whether it was smoke and mirrors.

I think that BF did it as a sort of disclaimer to offer a degree of separation between the Visentini and the other ships. They didn't really want the full BF brand to be associated with such a standard of vessel, the only one they could lay their hands on. 

The only reason BDS has Economie on her is that she has a limited onboard service to Spain. If she sailed to France there would be no difference in quality and customer offer to that of Barfleur. I've said it before, her Plus cabins are furnished to a similar standard to that of the Commodore's and of equal size and the lounge many of them open on to is a fine place to spend an afternoon reading, doing a crossword or perusing BFe on t'interweb. the catering is of a good standard and there's also a Petit Marche similar to the Cap'

I doubt we'll see it'll stay once both ships return to their owners.

 

It just really goes to show how careful companies have to be to avoid the possibility of damage to their reputation. It probably would have been better to have not bothered with the whole Economie thing and just said that certain sailings with some ships will be at a lower price to reflect a slightly lower level of the facilities available on longer crossings.

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21 minutes ago, G4rth said:

It just really goes to show how careful companies have to be to avoid the possibility of damage to their reputation. It probably would have been better to have not bothered with the whole Economie thing and just said that certain sailings with some ships will be at a lower price to reflect a slightly lower level of the facilities available on longer crossings.

On the other hand - people taking the BDS to Le Havre may have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the vessel? Surely better not to over-promise, and under- deliver?

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7 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

On the other hand - people taking the BDS to Le Havre may have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the vessel? Surely better not to over-promise, and under- deliver?

True - whilst the bar/lounge area may be a bit smaller/basic than passengers are used to, the BDS is quite well appointed. 

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Sailed on her twice and and will be a third time in febuary and have got no problems with her at all apart from ,she is a bit slower then the cap and point on the Spanish run.

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1 hour ago, hf_uk said:

On the other hand - people taking the BDS to Le Havre may have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the vessel? Surely better not to over-promise, and under- deliver?

Indeed that could well be the case. I was merely questioning whether the creation of the Economie branding without being able to illustrate the economic advantage to the traveller was a wise move. If there is no clear advantage then surely it is a case of "over promise and under deliver" that both of us agree is not a good move. 

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5 hours ago, Jim said:

It would be easy enough just to close facilities - to reduce the costs and say it's economie. Shut the a-la-carte and you could magically add a large lounge. Don't open the Salon de The. Bazinga... you've got an economie service.

 

why do you want to make an economic standing on this route and not on other routes ? More quality on Le Havre / Portsmouth route can make it more interesting ?

 

Edited by LHCity

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