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Gareth

SAILING UPDATES: 2019 Latest News

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13 minutes ago, Gareth said:

BF deals with disruption to travel plans exceptionally well, and its customer service is second to none. 

BF are good at dealing with disruptions when you can communicate with them, however they appear to have limited staff with limited hours and appear to be swamped when situations like the PA happen. From twitter, it appears that they deliberately publish limited information on the sailing updates page and work through one sailing at a time contacting affected people. At no stage have they said that the sailings up to the 11th are cancelled.

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1 hour ago, Aiden said:

Is Bretagne diverting course beacause of traffic or is something else up quite unusual for me

Hi, @Aiden, 'Bretagne' has 12 hours to do a crossing overnight that normally takes about 9 hours during the day. It's normal for 'Bretagne' to manoeuvre like that.

Capture.JPG

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As Tony eludes Bretagne has the luxury (or not) of spare time on the night crossing.  Which means she normally only steams at around 12-15kts, often only 9 or 10kts out of St Malo for a good while.  The problem with this, hence the (or not), is she, like all ships is not as stable at slower speeds hence why she may steam slower in sheltered waters then speed up to cross a bigger swelled area, and maybe then get the fins out with the increased speed (they do not work well at slow speed).  OR, which is what I am guessing happened in this snapshot, is she has crossed the main traffic line formed by the TSS, so she has had to do a bit of giving way and dodging other ships plying their trade east or west along the Channel.  At 12kts she potentially has to do more 'dodging' than if she had plied through at 19-20kts like she does on her day duties.  Problem is I cannot see where she is in respect of the English Channel but guessing somewhere NNE of Alderney?  Again remember AIS draws a straight line between each position plot so there is an element of falseness with the tracks shown, such that the suggested turns look sharper and or more acute than they really were!

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Yes - indeed, even though we cannot see where Bretagne is in relation to landmarks, we can see that the course change coincided with crossing the east-bound up-channel shipping lane.  Technically it is not actually a TSS between the eastern limit of the Casquettes TSS and the Greenwich light vessel, so in terms of colregs it is just open sea.  But in practice that makes little difference to crossing strategy - the ferries still thread their way through the lanes taking action to avoid traffic as necessary.

(The end of the Casquettes TSS, by the way, is the point at which Spain-Portsmouth ferries alter course from the Channel shipping lanes to their final approach towards either the Nab or Foreland Point (depending on approach route into the Solent)).

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Maybe this will make it easier to understand. 'Bretagne' never really went over 15knts until she reached Alderney. Heading to Portsmouth now, she's already hitting 21knts.

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I think the speed is irrelevant Tony - the course variation was to do with crossing the shipping lane and avoiding crossing traffic).

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Hi Gareth yeh I was not implying it was the TSS, only that the traffic formed by the TSS essentially forms a continual 'highway' up the channel.  Sorry if I did not make that clear enough.  And I also accept she does not have to necessarily give way to all of this traffic.  Blooming minefield if you ask me for the crews as each and every situation relies on different parts of the regs to decide who is going to do what! My mate drives the QM2, that is half the reason they stay out of it. . . they are generally too fast!

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Her speed was relevant to my original comment, as Bretagne has longer to do that crossing overnight than she has during the day and she does tend to manoeuvre like that overnight.

 

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Sorry 5_Short, was not in any way taking any issue with your post.  I agreed with it all.  Was just establishing that the area not being a formal TSS was just a technicality and that your point about change of course to avoid traffic when crossing what is still effectively a “lane” was spot on.

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Something seems to be up with Saint Amorique, her evening crossing from Plymouth seems to have been moved to this afternoon and passengers appear to have been loaded last night, the return crossing was cancelled.

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“Technical breakdown” according to BF sailings updates page.  (Not quite sure what other kind of breakdown a ferry can have....unless she is overwhelmed with exhaustion from the weekend’s excitement! 🤣).

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4 minutes ago, Gareth said:

“Technical breakdown” according to BF sailings updates page.  (Not quite sure what other kind of breakdown a ferry can have....unless she is overwhelmed with exhaustion from the weekend’s excitement! 🤣).

Interesting, with last night passengers on board (and presumably in cabins), they will have another load of passengers for the 15:00.

 

Edited by David Williams
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Meanwhile.....the only Pont Aven sailing still showing as “cancelled” on the Updates page was yesterday’s Portsmouth-Santander crossing.  All other sailings, including Cork-Roscoff and Plymouth-Santander, are showing as operating to schedule.  Presumably that includes this evening’s departure from Santander to Plymouth (?) - on the other hand, Pont Aven is still tied up in Brest and has not moved since she arrived.....😳

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1 hour ago, Gareth said:

“Technical breakdown” according to BF sailings updates page.  (Not quite sure what other kind of breakdown a ferry can have....unless she is overwhelmed with exhaustion from the weekend’s excitement! 🤣).

It'll be a literal translation of 'panne technique'. The other options in French are sometimes the equivalent of 'fuel problems', 'IT problems' etc. My personal favourite is often used by the SNCF: 'panne de reveil' when a driver oversleeps and doesn't turn up for work on time. 😉 Ed. 

Edited by Cabin-boy
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2 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

It'll be a literal translation of 'panne technique'. The other options in French are sometimes the equivalent of 'fuel problems', 'IT problems' etc. Ed. 

Anglo Saxon has a similar all encompassing translation too...its called `Knackered`😂

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Let's see if MSM has the same 24hr  bug... I'm wondering whether those looking have found the cause of PA's fire and it only takes a day to replace the faulty part(s).

The Arm' only has 2 of the MAK engines, MSM has the same 4 as PA.

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According to Twitter some passengers don't appear too happy at being kept on board until 3pm this afternoon when it looks like she is due to sail. The crew are arranging for those who wish to disembark to be able to do so in the meantime. Presumably that will be on foot only as trying to get a car out of the garage deck when hemmed in by all the others would be impossible. Ed. 

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9 minutes ago, jonno said:

Let's see if MSM has the same 24hr  bug... I'm wondering whether those looking have found the cause of PA's fire and it only takes a day to replace the faulty part(s).

The Arm' only has 2 of the MAK engines, MSM has the same 4 as PA.

Stena Baltic a (ex-Cotentin) is running as normal today according to the Stena website but, if what you are suggesting is correct, then presumably we can expect to see one of her crossings cancelled in the coming days. Ed. 

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12 minutes ago, jonno said:

Let's see if MSM has the same 24hr  bug... I'm wondering whether those looking have found the cause of PA's fire and it only takes a day to replace the faulty part(s).

The Arm' only has 2 of the MAK engines, MSM has the same 4 as PA.

I thought MSM had in-line 6Cyl engines rather than V12s

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9 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Stena Baltic a (ex-Cotentin) is running as normal today according to the Stena website but, if what you are suggesting is correct, then presumably we can expect to see one of her crossings cancelled in the coming days. Ed. 

There’s a difference - no scrubbers.  (Jonno thinks PA’s issue might be scrubber-related doesn’t he?).

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20 minutes ago, crechbleiz said:

I thought MSM had in-line 6Cyl engines rather than V12s

They're all the same engine, M43's, regardless of the head configuration.

30 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Stena Baltic a (ex-Cotentin) is running as normal today according to the Stena website but, if what you are suggesting is correct, then presumably we can expect to see one of her crossings cancelled in the coming days. Ed. 

 

20 minutes ago, Gareth said:

There’s a difference - no scrubbers.  (Jonno thinks PA’s issue might be scrubber-related doesn’t he?).

Stena Baltica has 2 of the 12 cylinder inline variant of the M43 and is ran on MGO, there's a strong indication that Stena are looking to power her on biofuel.

Yes I think the issue has been scrubber related, all three have the same bespoke system designed by LAB.

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4 hours ago, jonno said:

They're all the same engine, M43's, regardless of the head configuration.

 

Stena Baltica has 2 of the 12 cylinder inline variant of the M43 and is ran on MGO, there's a strong indication that Stena are looking to power her on biofuel.

Yes I think the issue has been scrubber related, all three have the same bespoke system designed by LAB.

Sorry to contradict you but the same family/design of engines does not mean same engines. So as far as I am concerned MSM does not have the same engines as PA.

I believe the engines mounted on Arm and Cotentin are V12s rather than in-line like her sister Armorique. (see pictures in link below)

http://www.marine-marchande.net/Reportages/Armorique/0-Armorique.htm

According to MAK's documentation the MAK M43C in-line design has a maximum of 9 cylinders.

https://www.cat.com/en_GB/products/new/power-systems/marine-power-systems/commercial-propulsion-engines/18547468.html

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Armorique seems to have sailed on schedule from Plymouth this afternoon, so looks like they’ve fixed whatever the problem was.

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