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Gareth

SAILING UPDATES: 2019 Latest News

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Oh well,

May as well put my name on every forum before returning to work in the morning - PA racing along at 21.3 knots, let’s hope that’s the last time we see her mentioned in the Sailing Updates thread this season...🤓

Chris

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9 hours ago, Gardian said:

As most on here will know, Pont Aven is about to resume service with the (normally) weekly crossing to Cork.  Shark will be happy !!

I reckon they should ‘push the boat out’ (so to speak) and offer a complimentary drink or two for this evening’s passengers.  Chances of that happening?   Zero, but Shark will no doubt be on presently.

Whilst posting, what do we reckon this has cost BF?  Set aside the inevitable loss of goodwill, it must be £20M at least for the 47 days out of action.

Yes, but think of all the money they have saved on fuel & other consumables!   ;)

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3 hours ago, Eriba-ist said:

Yes, but think of all the money they have saved on fuel & other consumables!   ;)

Yes and how much wine Chris has not sold to his Irish customers, it's not just the ferry company that looses out.

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Well the Pont got us home safe and sound, and on time! 

Couple of things I noticed,

1. She is starting to look a little shabby in places, we had a Commodore class cabin on the return leg and it certainly wasn’t a clean as it could have been(shower was particularly grimy)  Other areas on board look a little worn out. 

2. Round bread rolls!

3. Looking off the back of the ship there is certainly more wash from one side of the ship. Is it possible that given one side of the ship is producing more power a small bit of rudder on the opposite side is necessary in order to maintain a straight course? Could this have caused the rudder issue?

4. Docking into Ringaskiddy was watched very carefully at the rear by the cork pilot(see pic). This is something I have never seen before and it took a few minutes back and forward before she was properly lined up. 

5. All things considered it was an enjoyable trip, and two new ferries travelled on!

FD8BEE04-FA16-4214-9F15-07864CC0F481.jpeg

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23 minutes ago, shar^k said:

She is starting to look a little shabby in places, we had a Commodore class cabin on the return leg and it certainly wasn’t a clean as it could have been(shower was particularly grimy)  Other areas on board look a little worn out. 

I'm glad you got back as planned. However, given the price I imagine you paid for that cabin and the level comfort you expected to receive, I think that is unacceptable. PA has been tied up for a month so the company have had ample time to give her a thorough clean (even if that means bussing their cleaners to Brest) so that she's spotless for the summer season and to offset some of the disappointment relating to her technical issues. Did you bring it to the attention of the reception staff or take photos of the problem? Ed. 

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Looks like after she last discharged in Roscoff, the cleaners weren`t needed as she sailed straight to Brest and no one has bothered since then..Certainly worth a mega complaint. Makes you wonder what state the rest of the ship is in.

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Nice one Shark, glad you home ok .... how on earth was the ship not 100% clean !! ... absolutely no excuse, the length of time she was laid up .... I'll have a good look myself in a fortnight.

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9 hours ago, Solo said:

Yes and how much wine Chris has not sold to his Irish customers, it's not just the ferry company that looses out.

 I  have the utmost faith that they will make up for it  .

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8 hours ago, shar^k said:

Well the Pont got us home safe and sound, and on time! 

FD8BEE04-FA16-4214-9F15-07864CC0F481.jpeg

Shark .........

I’d be interested to hear your view on the ‘mood’ of the crew after 7 weeks off, as far as you would have been able to judge it in such a short time.

p.s. I do understand that more than a few may well have been re-deployed on to other services.

 

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I would be interested in Jonno's comment to point 3...

(I did always wonder why a 737 on one engine doesn't go round in circles)!

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I don't know the reason for it,  but I've been on quite a  few ferries where there was more wash on one side than the other, so perhaps it's quite common.

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5 hours ago, Tumnus2010 said:

I don't know the reason for it,  but I've been on quite a  few ferries where there was more wash on one side than the other, so perhaps it's quite common.

Presumably, if she was using just one prop (prop, not engine), then there would have to be a degree of steer compensation by the rudders? Or would they both remain in unison? Also, having seem like others, what appears to be heavily one-sided wash before... would that not also create a vast amount of drag if it were just lose in the water whilst the other one goes at full pelt?this

Incidentally, Honfleur is almost identical size to PA in terms of GRT, Length and Width, but has 1 main prop, not 2. There must be a really good reason for this?

Edited by hf_uk
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9 hours ago, Gardian said:

Shark .........

I’d be interested to hear your view on the ‘mood’ of the crew after 7 weeks off, as far as you would have been able to judge it in such a short time.

p.s. I do understand that more than a few may well have been re-deployed on to other services.

 

Crew were in good form. No problems on that front. That being said it was a much quieter sailing then I imagine was originally booked so it probably wasn’t the hardest shift they will put in this year. 

It was probably only half full I reckon. The same sailing last year was almost full.

It would seem a lot of people were not taking the chance that she would be back and arranged alternatives.

I did notice a number of the crew deep in conversation like they hadn’t been talking for a while.

And some other crew were being trained and shown muster stations during the crossing, new starts I presume.

 

Edited by shar^k

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11 hours ago, hf_uk said:

I would be interested in Jonno's comment to point 3...

(I did always wonder why a 737 on one engine doesn't go round in circles)!

I'll leave aircraft as it'll mean going into Reynolds numbers & fluid dynamics, inboard and outboard wing mounting position, weight etc.

Pont Aven has two rudders which are hydraulic, all pressurised hot fluids and pistons with tonnes of force, normal operation such as cavitation during sailing & manoeuvring wont effect them. I'd not be surprised if the engine failure effected power to the steering hydraulics causing a fault which only manifested itself when she returned to service. Engines don't just power prop shafts.

Most modern ships have adjustable blades, in a similar manner to prop driven aircraft... blades can be feathered (straightened) to reduce drag/propulsion or angled to allow more bite. 

When a ship such as Pont Aven goes astern her prop shafts rotate in the same direction as she's going ahead, it's the blades which rotate determining the direction which is why it's common to see different states of water turbulence. It also greatly enhances her steering ability. Consider a turn to port, starboard propeller ahead, port propeller astern. Think of your hands on a steering wheel when turning left, you push up with right - ahead and pull down with the left - astern.

South coast marinas are full of flying bridge twin screw cruisers which will often use their throttle levers to compensate for wind and tide. The beauty for many of these however is that they can moor in different directions... into the wind and against the tide for instance, using the natural elements to assist. Ships don't have that little luxury, look at Millbay - the ferries berth the same way regardless so it all needs to be mechanical which is why bow & stern thrusters are so useful. Having them push the ship in opposite directions greatly assists manoeuvring allowing them to turn in their length, they'll steer from the centre turning both the bow and stern rather than just having the blunt end swing.

Another obstacle many ships face is the lack of depth under the keel. Shallow older ports and those subject to sea bed shifting and silting greatly effect the mobility of a ship, the closer they are to the bed the greater the squat effect which in turn reduces the amount of water the blades have to use for propulsion. Power is greatly reduced and one of the main reasons why we see tug assistance. In this instance tugs also reduce the risk of blade damage due to underwater obstacles such as berth armour which can be freed under turbulence also causing damage to the skeg and rudder cups.

 

 

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12 hours ago, hf_uk said:

Incidentally, Honfleur is almost identical size to PA in terms of GRT, Length and Width, but has 1 main prop, not 2. There must be a really good reason for this?

She has two props and shafts but unusually for a ferry she won't have have controllable pitch propellers, they'll be fixed. Though as they'll be powered by electric motors reversing direction of turn will be easier than on a traditional HFO/MDO engine.

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Great to see the PA is not hanging about since her return ... a steady 21.5 kn and now en route to Santander ... keep it up 😀

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37 minutes ago, Timmy said:

She has two props and shafts but unusually for a ferry she won't have have controllable pitch propellers, they'll be fixed. Though as they'll be powered by electric motors reversing direction of turn will be easier than on a traditional HFO/MDO engine.

Spot on, I'll add that LNG is also a more powerful fuel to begin with.

We're having a hybrid system fitted into our narrowboat, ok it's only 3-4mph but it'll be 18 tonnes of steel thicker than a ships hull which takes a lot of energy to get going and to stop. The response times upto 900 rpm are far quicker, it's akin to a bow thruster.

I was impressed when the lads at Beta Marine showed me it anyway...

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"Docking into Ringaskiddy was watched very carefully at the rear by the cork pilot(see pic). This is something I have never seen before and it took a few minutes back and forward before she was properly lined up."   Have seen the pilot boat like this before. I think the Pilot gets off at the car ramp. Good that Pont is back anyways.

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On 15/06/2019 at 22:40, hf_uk said:

 

(I did always wonder why a 737 on one engine doesn't go round in circles)!

It would if left to do so. Generally rudder and rudder trim is added initially to make the plane go in a straight line. Its now skidding sideways. At full power on one engine it will be required by certification to demonstrate a maximum (generally 5 degrees) roll towards the operating engine using ailerons and or spoilers on the wing as well as rudder trim in order to maintain control . All this creates drag so costs fuel.
Subject to satisfactory speed and flying attitude its often better to reduce power on the "good" engine.

Stu

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On 15/06/2019 at 22:40, hf_uk said:

I would be interested in Jonno's comment to point 3...

(I did always wonder why a 737 on one engine doesn't go round in circles)!

Ah sure that's how it circles the world .

Edited by Chef

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