Flagships

[Tumnus2010]

With the introduction of Honfleur I assume the mantle of flagship will move to her from Pont  Aven? But PA will have been the flagship for 15 years which I guess is the record for BF ships.

Of the previous flagships still in the fleet am i right in thinking that Bretagne, Normandie and MSM were all at one point the flagship? 

[Gareth]

Interesting question.

Is the rationale behind the assumption of change of flagship purely because Honfleur will be newer?  If so, then why did Armorique not become the flagship?

Until your post it did not occur to me that Honfleur's arrival might signify a change of flagship.  And I would still be inclined to suspect that Pont Aven will remain the flagship.  But will be interesting to see what sort of replies you get in this thread!

[Tumnus2010]

31 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Interesting question.

Is the rationale behind the assumption of change of flagship purely because Honfleur will be newer?  If so, then why did Armorique not become the flagship?

 

Not purely based on age, no. I agree then Armorique would have become it. But it could be a factor given it's 10 years since we had a brand new ship. My thinking was based on size -GRT and moreover the new technologies that Honfleur uses, LNG being something i could see them liking to shout about. The wording in project Honfleur however, as far as I can see, doesn't say meet our new flagship. So maybe PA will remain the flagship.

 

It depends on what defines the flagship. PO Hull Rotterdam remain the PO flagships but are 9/10 years older than the spirits, but are larger and I would say grander. I would have no issue if PA remained, if so you'd assume she would until such time as a new build arrived for Bretagne? Would BF make an e-flexer their flagship(s)? 

[hf_uk]

I assumed (perhaps incorrectly, that it was the largest in terms of gross tonnage)....?

[Cabin-boy]

47 minutes ago, Gareth said:

why did Armorique not become the flagship

No restaurant. See parallel thread. 

Pehaps it should be the fastest so that the flag is always out in front. I nominate NEX. ED. 

[jonno]

29 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

No restaurant. See parallel thread. 

Pehaps it should be the fastest so that the flag is always out in front. I nominate NEX. ED. 

Ed... behave!😀

[jonno]

The only time a new flagship has been mentioned over the past few years was when PEGASIS was announced. The E-Flexer, it's rumoured is a hybrid of that design but again no mention of either becoming a new flagship has been printed. Maybe as both ships will be initially chartered the nomenclature is void.

None of the press releases surrounding Honfleur say anything about her being the new flagship either.

[Cabin-boy]

If we take the Wikipedia definition then :

 'it is the lead ship in a fleet of vessels, typically the first (Bretagne), largest (PA), fastest (NEX), most heavily armed (errr?), or best known (Barfleur obviously if based on the number of threads discussing her).' 

Ed

[Gareth]

Ed - behave! 😀

[MichaelBF]

Someone said to me PA would remain the Flagship. Armorique and Honfluer are similar ships. 

[Gunwharf]

I assume it's not just the ship but also the route she serves.

PA serves the most prestigious routes (st Malo, Spain, Ireland) so I would expect that also contributes to the decision of her remaining the flag ship.

No disrespect to Honfleur but won't she just be serving the one route to Caen? I appreciate it's a cash cow for the company given the high freight volumes but it's hardly prestigious compared to the PA routing structure.

[penguin]

4 hours ago, Gunwharf said:

I assume it's not just the ship but also the route she serves.

PA serves the most prestigious routes (st Malo, Spain, Ireland) so I would expect that also contributes to the decision of her remaining the flag ship.

No disrespect to Honfleur but won't she just be serving the one route to Caen? I appreciate it's a cash cow for the company given the high freight volumes but it's hardly prestigious compared to the PA routing structure.

Without wanting to labour the point, one has an open freight deck, the other a swimming pool

[Tumnus2010]

I agree with the above comparisons between the two. The only thing I'd say against it is that didn't Normandie take the mantle off Bretagne when she arrived? And not sure on this, but did MSM take it off Val de Loire when she entered service? If so it would suggest that the route is of little importance, Ouistreham is of course the flagship route in terms of number of crossings, and the one that is maintained above all the others it seems. 

[Gareth]

Have to say, I don’t remember MSM or Normandie ever being the flagship - but I might be wrong.

[Seashore]

I remember MSM being referred to as flagship, I can’t remember where and it was probably about 17 years ago (Pont-Aven was not far behind after all).

One I didn’t realise until P&O Cruises’ Britannia came in, was that until then Oriana (the oldest and one of the smallest ships in the fleet) was still flagship despite many newer, bigger ships joining. I believe Iona though will be taking their flagship mantle.

[MichaelBF]

On 06/02/2019 at 16:13, Gunwharf said:

I assume it's not just the ship but also the route she serves.

PA serves the most prestigious routes (st Malo, Spain, Ireland) so I would expect that also contributes to the decision of her remaining the flag ship.

No disrespect to Honfleur but won't she just be serving the one route to Caen? I appreciate it's a cash cow for the company given the high freight volumes but it's hardly prestigious compared to the PA routing structure.

Spoke to a mate a few weeks ago, who reckons that there is a possibility that Honfleur could work Plym-Ros at quieter times, due to it being able to dock in Plymouth easily. I thought CF, Armorique, Bretagne and Pont Aven were the only ships wide enough to fit into Plymouth, but could be wrong.

[Gareth]

Wide enough?

Well, Penn Ar Bed seemed to manage ok, and everything around these days is wider than that, so I don’t think a “minimum width” is a constraint.

Is this mate of yours privy to inside information?  I would be extremely surprised if Honfleur served on Plymouth-Roscoff.  Firstly because there is no such thing as “quieter times”  on the Caen service - it operates full-pelt all year round.  And secondly because she is designed for twin-level loading and would be a waste.  (I am not aware that she has been designed with an internal ramp like Armorique’s, that deliberately configures her to be versatile).

[MichaelBF]

5 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Wide enough?

Well, Penn Ar Bed seemed to manage ok, and everything around these days is wider than that, so I don’t think a “minimum width” is a constraint.

Is this mate if yours privy to inside information?  I would be extremely surprised if Honfleur served on Plymouth-Roscoff.  Firstly because there is no such thing as “quieter times”  on the Caen service - it operated full-pelt all year round.  And secondly because she is designed for twin-level loading and would be a waste.  (I am not aware that she has been designed with an internal ramp like Armorique’s, that deliberately configures her to be versatile).

Perhaps not width then, sure someone once said there were restrictions for something. 

He works in the Operations department in Portsmouth - he's had some inside knowledge in the past. Although I am sceptical. 

It would be a waste to use Honfleur on Plymouth routes - someone mentioned Normandie on another thread, although I doubt there be any changes yet. 

[Cabin-boy]

16 minutes ago, MichaelBF said:

someone mentioned Normandie on another thread

That would be me, I think. And the logic was that she does have an internal ramp I believe (as I always seem to get parked on it) but whether it's operational I don't know. Ed. 

[Gareth]

I suspect it does work.  But, unlike Armorique’s ramp, it is small (basically one car-width wide), proobably quite steep, and only hinges one way.  It’s really there for emergencies, not day-to-day routine operation.

[Cabin-boy]

I have a suspicion it hinges both ways from what I've seen but may be wrong. Someone will know. Ed. 

[alleeganger10]

19 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

I have a suspicion it hinges both ways from what I've seen but may be wrong. Someone will know. Ed. 

I agree, i have never seen it used, but my Engineers brain tells me it does.

 

20 hours ago, Gareth said:

 I would be extremely surprised if Honfleur served on Plymouth-Roscoff.  

Me too, first and foremost, because  SOMANOR, Sophie GAUGAIN,  Monsieur MORIN and the Region Normandie as a whole would have something to say if this was the case ?

[hf_uk]

On 07/02/2019 at 20:36, Gareth said:

Wide enough?

Well, Penn Ar Bed seemed to manage ok, and everything around these days is wider than that, so I don’t think a “minimum width” is a constraint.

Is this mate of yours privy to inside information?  I would be extremely surprised if Honfleur served on Plymouth-Roscoff.  Firstly because there is no such thing as “quieter times”  on the Caen service - it operates full-pelt all year round.  And secondly because she is designed for twin-level loading and would be a waste.  (I am not aware that she has been designed with an internal ramp like Armorique’s, that deliberately configures her to be versatile).

Has anyone heard what ports Honfleur will do berthing trials at?

[hf_uk]

On 07/02/2019 at 20:29, MichaelBF said:

Spoke to a mate a few weeks ago, who reckons that there is a possibility that Honfleur could work Plym-Ros at quieter times, due to it being able to dock in Plymouth easily. I thought CF, Armorique, Bretagne and Pont Aven were the only ships wide enough to fit into Plymouth, but could be wrong.

CF is longer. And Honfleur is same width as PA. Makes complete sense that should *could* berth in Plymouth. Only drawback being, I would imagine, the position of the passenger gangway access - which may not line up. (Although one would hope Plymouth would get a new one before too long anyway)...

[Gareth]

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