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DP World buys P&O (again!)

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1 minute ago, hf_uk said:

Is the Ferry division totally separate from the Cruise side then?

Yep, they're owned by Carnival Corp who own most of the big names. I see Reuters are saying that DP sold the ferry & freight business back in 2011 due to global financial constraints, strange there's no evidence of it and back then DP were still spending billions. I wonder if the "sale" was just a paper exercise between their own holdings?

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Thanks Jonno. Excuse my ignorance, so other than sharing the name, the Cruise side has absolutely nothing to do with the Ferry operation then in terms of budgets/marketing etc?

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Sounds like a typical Dubai `smoke and mirrors` operation..Moving from one part of the gigantic conglomerate to another.

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After reading this, I was having a look around at valuations, at came across this on t'interweb...
"Brittany Ferries"

Type Private company
Key people Jean-Marc Roué Christophe Mathieu Frédéric Pouget Corinne Vintner Jean-François Jacob
Revenue €376.5 million (2014)
Total assets €367.4 million (2014)
Owner BAI Bretagne Angleterre Irlande S.A.

 

Although old data, I didn't realize how close annual revenue was compared to their assets. Also quite interesting that the total assets are valued that low, even though they only have shares in certain ships etc, but to include all of the rest of their infrastructure too.

I read that turnover was up quite a lot since then though, (450m ish) - but then presumably so is the value of their assets.... Just intrigued me.

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55 minutes ago, hf_uk said:


I read that turnover was up quite a lot since then though, (450m ish) - but then presumably so is the value of their assets.... Just intrigued me.

Wouldn't the asset value go down as the ships get older? Ed

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Presumably the headline should be DP World buys P&O, again

... and Ed's right, usually assets depreciate in accounting terms over time. 

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1 hour ago, Cabin-boy said:

Wouldn't the asset value go down as the ships get older? Ed

Yeah but I presume they have "acquired more stuff" since then?

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5 hours ago, hf_uk said:

After reading this, I was having a look around at valuations, at came across this on t'interweb...
"Brittany Ferries"

Type Private company
Key people Jean-Marc Roué Christophe Mathieu Frédéric Pouget Corinne Vintner Jean-François Jacob
Revenue €376.5 million (2014)
Total assets €367.4 million (2014)
Owner BAI Bretagne Angleterre Irlande S.A.

 

Although old data, I didn't realize how close annual revenue was compared to their assets. Also quite interesting that the total assets are valued that low, even though they only have shares in certain ships etc, but to include all of the rest of their infrastructure too.

I read that turnover was up quite a lot since then though, (450m ish) - but then presumably so is the value of their assets.... Just intrigued me.

The ships are amortised over a 20 year period so essentially Barfleur Normandie & Bretagne are worth nothing... on paper. The onward sale price is what's important for profit percentage and what the insurance would pay to replace them.

Take Armorique, she cost around £80m ten years ago. If BF sold her tomorrow for £45m they would show a £5m profit.

You have to love amortisation, it's every business' best friend.

7 hours ago, hf_uk said:

Thanks Jonno. Excuse my ignorance, so other than sharing the name, the Cruise side has absolutely nothing to do with the Ferry operation then in terms of budgets/marketing etc?

The cruise side has no connection with the Ferry or freight side at all, they are wholly separate companies owned by different groups.

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

The cruise side has no connection with the Ferry or freight side at all, they are wholly separate companies owned by different groups.

Apart from the P&O example (and Rolls Royce of course), are there any other examples of a common name being used jointly by two different legal entities? Ed. 

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6 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Apart from the P&O example (and Rolls Royce of course), are there any other examples of a common name being used jointly by two different legal entities? Ed. 

Rolls Royce Holdings still own a fair bit of the cars, it's used under licence. Vickers had no rights to them when they sold the car company to BMW. If RR pull the licence there'd be no RR branded cars.

A lot of the aero stuff are joint ventures. The Peggy (Pegasus) which powered the Harrier and Olly (Olympus) turbines in the Vulcan were originally a Bristol design and were fitted to the first Vulcan's as such... There's an old Duke of Edinburgh joke about a comment he made regarding the Vulcan's 'fine pair of Bristols'...

They became the Olympus when reconfigured in the early '60's to power Concorde and HMS Bristol, the training ship which is moored adjacent to the ferry terminal in Portsmouth was powered by two of the marine derivatives.

Right, back to what you asked... I don't know of any same name companies which actually do the same thing. We have Apple but on one hand that's music production and on the other crap phones and tablets. Condor, an airline as well as a ferry company.

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I am reminded of the time a very experienced UK fund manager told me anyone who invested on the basis of a balance sheet and/or annual report was shall we say a tad misguided!

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14 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Thanks. Yes, I was thinking about companies which split into different parts but use the same name. Ed. 

Volvo - trucks and cars are totally unrelated but share a name and logo (for example).

 

(and I don't even know about Volvo Penta, are they a 3rd entity or subsidiary to the trucks organisation)

Edited by penguin
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20 hours ago, jonno said:

Rolls Royce Holdings still own a fair bit of the cars, it's used under licence. Vickers had no rights to them when they sold the car company to BMW. If RR pull the licence there'd be no RR branded cars.

A lot of the aero stuff are joint ventures. The Peggy (Pegasus) which powered the Harrier and Olly (Olympus) turbines in the Vulcan were originally a Bristol design and were fitted to the first Vulcan's as such... There's an old Duke of Edinburgh joke about a comment he made regarding the Vulcan's 'fine pair of Bristols'...

They became the Olympus when reconfigured in the early '60's to power Concorde and HMS Bristol, the training ship which is moored adjacent to the ferry terminal in Portsmouth was powered by two of the marine derivatives.

Right, back to what you asked... I don't know of any same name companies which actually do the same thing. We have Apple but on one hand that's music production and on the other crap phones and tablets. Condor, an airline as well as a ferry company.

If I remember correctly Vickers sold Rolls Royce motors to Volkswagen. Rolls Royce (aero engines) then made a deal with BMW for use of the name/logo etc.That meant Volkswagen couldn't use the Rolls Royce name. Volkswagen now manufacture Bentleys at the old Rolls Royce site in Crewe, BMW now manufacture Rolls Royce at a newish site in Goodwood.

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It was a good few years ago now but Vickers bought Cosworth Engineering and sold it  at about the same time 1999?? as they ditched RR Cars to I think Ford. I heard from someone who should know that when the Cosworth engineers were asked to go along to the RR works at Crewe they were staggered at how antediluvian it all was. What is left of Vickers is now owned by Rolls -Royce PLC! The choice of the Goodwood site, I was told,  had much to do with the high level of boat finishing skills in the area. One only wishes the cars had at least a little element of style. 

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19 minutes ago, Millsy said:

One only wishes the cars had at least a little element of style. 

I'm not sure one is really bothered about style when one is being chauffeured along in one's finest calf-leather massaging seats, swatting peasants out of the way, and perusing one's stock-market portfolio before deciding which of one's yachts to use this weekend. 😉 Ed. 

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