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French speeding fines

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I have received a 'Violation Notice' in the post this morning for a speeding offence recorded September 2018 by a fixed speed camera whilst on holiday in Brittany.

The authorized speed limit allowed was apparently 70km/hr and I was recorded at 76km/hr, meaning after the 'allowance' of 5km/hr, my offence is for doing 71 in a 70 limited area.

The time taken to issue is presumably down to the time taken to get my details from DVLA.

Having looked at my speedometer in the car (a Citroen C3) it's nigh impossible to read the scale with that sort of accuracy - I feel a bit hard done by, as I'm certainly no boy racer!

Trip adviser has several cases of people caught out by signage not being correct when limits changed last year, but I can't think how i could look into that possibility at this stage.

Suppose I'll have to stump up the fine (45 euros if I pay promptly)

Obviously I shall be super careful on my next visit to France in May - I post this as a warning to others as to the very fine tolerances the French authorities work to, 😕

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Interesting, speedo's (no Ed, not yer budgie smugglers!) tend to show a speed faster than you're actually travelling. They're still a bit more accurate than your sat nav as they don't take the terrain into account.

Still, you do get a little more grace here in the UK, 10% + 2 mph.

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Nottingham, I assume you were on a ring-road around one of the larger towns or cities as that's typically where those types of limits apply. I doubt there is much you can do to contest it unfortunately unless you are adamant the signage was wrong or hidden. There should have been a radar warning sign at last 500 metres ahead of the camera. Both my cars over here do, as Jonno says, tend to show up on speed monitors at 46 for example when I think I'm going at 50. Ed. 

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25 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Nottingham, I assume you were on a ring-road around one of the larger towns or cities as that's typically where those types of limits apply. I doubt there is much you can do to contest it unfortunately unless you are adamant the signage was wrong or hidden. There should have been a radar warning sign at last 500 metres ahead of the camera. Both my cars over here do, as Jonno says, tend to show up on speed monitors at 46 for example when I think I'm going at 50. Ed. 

 

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A quick check on Google maps suggests that the limit on that road is 110km/h. I don't know when the photos date from but it's a dual carriageway and I doubt they have changed the speed limit, and certainly not too that extent. I also can't find any reference to a radar in that area. There is one just to the west of Pleyben. Could it be that one? Again the limit appears to be 110.

https://www.radars-auto.com/carte-radar/finistere/

Ed

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2 hours ago, Ian Ling said:

I also had one in the post for 80 kilos per hour and clocked at  75 how many more have been done ?

 

Welcome to the forum Ian, 80 kilo's eh, bet that's a heavy fine..!😉

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Vehiclule Banalises? Perhaps?

http://www.securite-routiere.gouv.fr/connaitre-les-regles/les-radars/les-types-de-radars/voiture-radar

Recaptcha maybe required

I too have heard very very recently about this.... Like yesterday and enquiries with French Family and Friends have shown the following.

Maybe the Data sharing which enables this is a very recent introduction, previously we believed this to be the case. As detailed on this website 

https://www.radars-auto.com/faq/contraventions-amendes-pv/etrangers-et-radars.php

However the Relevant  EU directive (EU) 2015/413 can be found read here...

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32015L0413

The letter template detailed on p17 of the English language version of the above contains the phrase “This letter as such does not lead to legal consequences”. 

It’s your choice, don’t blame or quote me, passing the information on!

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, alleeganger10 said:

Vehiclule Banalises?

He did say in the original post that it was a fixed camera. So I wonder if it was recalibrated due to roadworks or a lane being out of action. If Nottingham could scan and post a photo of the penalty notice (after blocking out any personal details) we might be able to understand the situation better. Ed. 

Edited by Cabin-boy

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I've had three in the past three days. All for last September and the times, dates and places are all correct. Like other people , I was a few miles per hour over the limit and, again like others, wearing my distance glasses, I can't read the kilometres on the speedo. I'm usually pretty good at converting the metric speeds to imperial, and the car's only a Hyundai i10, but i shall now be ultra careful when nextb in France (which just happens to be next week!).

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The EU directive is interesting and of course fundamentally flawed, at the same time. It is slanted, firmly, in the direction of the state, to assist in efforts to collect fines (revenue) and insists on pretty much everyone joining in. At the same time, seemingly ensuring, that there is little or no redress by the accused, very little facility to challenge the assertions of the state and most certainly the directive is devoid of time limits in order to process both notices to the accused, so they may prepare a defence if they so wish, as well as the offences themselves. How, as in Nottingham`s case, can you defend yourself so long after the event, when possible evidence has been lost. The time delay I would suggest is no accident. DVLA will send them the details very quickly. (They`ll actually send you anybody`s details, in reality, as long as you wonga up to them first).. 

  For the EU,an organisation, that is ostensibly, hot on Human Rights....this is a rather large gaping hole.

Coming back to the directive.I`m assuming that the French are not following it to the letter (as usual).If they were, then the 4 pages questionaire, which ends with the comment "This letter does not lead to legal consequences" must be the first communication from them. It is a valid attempt to ascertain who was the driver and/or owner at the time of the offence.The Directive template clearly states that any fine/imposition/appeal rights will be communicated later. As far as I can see you are committing no offence by failing to supply your details to a foreign state. 

    I suspect, as in Nottingham`s case they merely assumed the owner was the driver, or close enough, time date place of offence, loosely provided and of course including the address to pay up to. Non? 

   And they wonder why the Gilet Jaune happened eh??

 

Edited by Paully

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32 minutes ago, BBCone said:

I've had three in the past three days. All for last September and the times, dates and places are all correct. Like other people , I was a few miles per hour over the limit and, again like others, wearing my distance glasses, I can't read the kilometres on the speedo. I'm usually pretty good at converting the metric speeds to imperial, and the car's only a Hyundai i10, but i shall now be ultra careful when nextb in France (which just happens to be next week!).

That's a lot of fines and points. Was it the same camera each time or three cameras along the same stretch of road? I can only suggest using your speed-limiter (if you have one) as it will reduce the risk of accidently straying over the limit but still allow you to kickdown for overtaking. One of my cars allows me to change the digital readout from kms to miles when I come back to the UK and to display it in the middle of the dashboard in addition to the usual dial. It's worth checking the menus on the infotainment system to see if that's an option. Ed. 

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The first was for 5 September on the RN147 going south and the second was three days later, going north on the same road. The third was also on 5 September but on the A10 near Tours. Our Hyundai doesn't have anything as sophisticated as a speed limiter or a digital speedo. It's actually been a brilliant little car.

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5 minutes ago, BBCone said:

Our Hyundai doesn't have anything as sophisticated as a speed limiter or a digital speedo.

Not even an audible warning you can set? How about your GPS (assuming you have one)? Can that be set to alert you? Ed. 

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10 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Life treating you well out there, hey Ed?! 🤣

I did mention 'both cars' in one of yesterday's posts so, just to clarify, 'one of my/our two cars'. Right, where did I put that tin of caviar? 😀 Ed. 

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1 hour ago, Paully said:

The EU directive is interesting and of course fundamentally flawed, at the same time. It is slanted, firmly, in the direction of the state, to assist in efforts to collect fines (revenue) and insists on pretty much everyone joining in. At the same time, seemingly ensuring, that there is little or no redress by the accused, very little facility to challenge the assertions of the state and most certainly the directive is devoid of time limits in order to process both notices to the accused, so they may prepare a defence if they so wish, as well as the offences themselves. How, as in Nottingham`s case, can you defend yourself so long after the event, when possible evidence has been lost. The time delay I would suggest is no accident. DVLA will send them the details very quickly. (They`ll actually send you anybody`s details, in reality, as long as you wonga up to them first).. 

  For the EU,an organisation, that is ostensibly, hot on Human Rights....this is a rather large gaping hole.

Coming back to the directive.I`m assuming that the French are not following it to the letter (as usual).If they were, then the 4 pages questionaire, which ends with the comment "This letter does not lead to legal consequences" must be the first communication from them. It is a valid attempt to ascertain who was the driver and/or owner at the time of the offence.The Directive template clearly states that any fine/imposition/appeal rights will be communicated later. As far as I can see you are committing no offence by failing to supply your details to a foreign state. 

    I suspect, as in Nottingham`s case they merely assumed the owner was the driver, or close enough, time date place of offence, loosely provided and of course including the address to pay up to. Non? 

   And they wonder why the Gilet Jaune happened eh??

 

I have a feeling that they already know who is driving the car as the UK has a border and submits personal travel details to the arriving country. Again back in 2014 the Gendarmes knew which ferry I'd crossed on, the scheduled arrival time and they even knew when and from where I was scheduled to be returning to the UK.

I've also been led to believe that the set up is more to do with the neighbours who border them as no details need to be submitted before travel, they can drive through quite anonymously. Strangely we are less of a concern for them. 

I'm in a similar position to @BBCone in needing distance specs to drive, even top end varifocals are useless for me. The car has a screen in the middle of the cluster which shows km's and we use a handy window sticker on the van which I believe are now sold onboard amongst all of the other travel paraphernalia.

https://www.vicarious-shop.com/products/speed-right-speed-conversion-sticker

Edited by jonno
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4 minutes ago, jonno said:

I have a feeling that they already know who is driving the car

I think he meant whether it was him, his wife, child, friend etc. Ed. 

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5 minutes ago, jonno said:

I have a feeling that they already know who is driving the car as the UK has a border and submits personal travel details to the arriving country. Again back in 2014 the Gendarmes knew which ferry I'd crossed on, the scheduled arrival time and they even knew when and from where I was scheduled to be returning to the UK.

I'm in a similar position to @BBCone in needing distance specs to drive, even top end varifocals are useless for me. The car has a screen in the middle of the cluster which shows km's and we use a handy window sticker on the van which I believe are now sold onboard amongst all of the other travel paraphernalia.

https://www.vicarious-shop.com/products/speed-right-speed-conversion-sticker

Very useful device Jonno, thanks I`ll get one..Could savev a load of grief..My previous Citroen was easily changeable from MPH to KMS on a digital display. My Present Hyundai, although a better car, sadly isnt as versatile.

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Not even an audible warning you can set? How about your GPS (assuming you have one)? Can that be set to alert you? Ed. 

No - we bought it new in 2012 and driven it to places such as Burgundy and the Algarve. But it is the most basic model and has been excellent value for money. NO GPS, though.

I shall be ultra-careful next week when we drive from Cherbourg to Amboise (and back!)

 

 

 

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You'll probably notice that most of the fixed cameras are out of action. But the odd one or two are still operational so do be wary. Good luck, although you won't actually find out the result until some time in September. 😊 Ed. 

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6 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

I think he meant whether it was him, his wife, child, friend etc. Ed. 

Ah, yes I see... There's a rumour you're chauffeured so your caviar doesn't fall off the cracker?

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I've been taking a look at the legal side of this and compared to the UK (where there appears to be a 14-day deadline for fines to be issued for a speeding offence) here in France there doesn't seem to be any limit whatsoever. On this website you can enter the reference number of the fine and check the details. 

https://www.usagers.antai.gouv.fr/demarches/saisienumeroconsultation?lang=fr

I'm still curious as to how the limit was set at 70 on a road that seems (as far as I can determine) to have a general 110 limit. Ed

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On 15/03/2019 at 10:37, Cabin-boy said:

I think he meant whether it was him, his wife, child, friend etc. Ed. 

The documents are issued (like in UK) to the registered keeper - there is an option to pay a deposit and declare to them the liable drivers details - then reclaim the deposit later!

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