Jump to content
BAI4

BF Confirms Fourth New Ferry (Third E-Flexer)

Recommended Posts

Galicia is No4. Her keel was only laid in January and the Chinese build 'em a bit slower hence why there's still a 2 year wait for her. Now Stena's no2 is heading to the fitting out quay they'll begin No5 for DFDS, when their No3 is floated they'll begin Salamanca... and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stena have officially confirmed the name of their next E-Flexer will be 'Stena Embla', which will be the 4th E-Flexer (3rd E-Flexer for Stena) built at the AVIC Shipyard. 'Galicia' will be the 3rd E-Flexer built by AVIC with the 'Salamanca' being the 6th E-Flexer.

https://www.niferry.co.uk/stena-officially-announce-the-name-for-second-new-belfast-to-liverpool-ferry/?fbclid=IwAR3IgSH2JR6B49gk5aGjn4a6-_CzMotSEvTGH8XBZMwrN6r6MsATivBuX9k

Edited by TonyMWeaver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TonyMWeaver said:

Stena have officially confirmed the name of their next E-Flexer will be 'Stena Embla', which will be the 4th E-Flexer (3rd E-Flexer for Stena) built at the AVIC Shipyard. 'Galicia' will be the 3rd E-Flexer built by AVIC with the 'Salamanca' being the 6th E-Flexer.

https://www.niferry.co.uk/stena-officially-announce-the-name-for-second-new-belfast-to-liverpool-ferry/?fbclid=IwAR3IgSH2JR6B49gk5aGjn4a6-_CzMotSEvTGH8XBZMwrN6r6MsATivBuX9k

Here we go again. Could someone please report accurately.

Estrid will be delivered 2019. Edda April 2020, Embla June 2020.

That's 1,2,3. As built is when they're ,er... built... It's not when a keel is laid or when an empty steel shell is floated out of a dock and tied to a fitting out quay. 

The youngest Stena ship (Embla), the supposed No4,  will have been at sea for 12 months before Galicia appears.

Galicia will be the 4th due in 2021... A full year after she was originally planned. DFDS No5, 2021... Salamanca No6, 2022, again a full year after she was originally planned.

There's only going to be 8 of them how hard is it to keep track?

"Brittany Ferries has today announced the charter of a third brand new cruise-ferry to serve its long-haul routes. To be powered by LNG (liquefied natural gas), the ship will be built at the AVIC Weihai Shipyard in China and is due to join Brittany Ferries’ network in 2023.

As yet unnamed, the new ship will be chartered from Stena RoRo and will be built to the Swedish shipowner’s E-Flexer design. Its arrival will bring to three the number of E-Flexer class ships in Brittany Ferries’ fleet following the arrival of Galicia in 2021 and Salamanca in 2022."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears to me that no one knows what is going on, I can only go by what I see or hear. The info from the NI Ferrysite which is normally reliable says different and going by info received tonight, my sources are saying that Stena are having 5, Brittany Ferries are having 3 and DFDS are having 1. As listed below:

#1: Stena (Stena Estrid)

#2: Stena (Stena Edda)

#3: Brittany Ferries (Galicia)

#4: Stena (Stena Embla)

#5: DFDS (Name TBC)

#6: Brittany Ferries (Salamanca)

#7: Stena (Name TBC)

#8: Stena (Name TBC)

#9: Brittany Ferries (Name TBC)

 

Please see screenshot from NIFerrySite below

 

Capture.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the yard numbers are a good indicator. Galicia & Salamanca are 267 & 269, Stena's latest is 266. These are given as a reflection of their completion target.

Estrid will be in service by November. with Edda spring 2020. Embla will be floated out by the end of October and be expected to be in service by late summer 2020. There's not much going in them so the fit out is quite quick. No5 for DFDS will be even quicker as she's not having any cabins.

As for her name and meaning, Embla,  I posted that a month ago.

Brittany Ferries have said Galicia will arrive in 2021, Salamanca 2022 and the yet unnamed 3rd in 2023.

Galicia isn't replacing BDS either as she'll be gone a full year beforehand.  

None of this is news. This has been the schedule for over 12 months now... fan and enthusiasts sites (this one included - dates in the New Build thread need updating) should keep up. 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have recently been thinking about how the Spanish timetable might look once the E-Flexers arrive. Cap Finistere presently operates three crossings per week, she is however a faster vessel. Is it unrealistic to think the E-Flexer can match her current timetable? Meanwhile, Baie de Seine's timetable involves a lot of time in port and I don't think BF really want their brand new vessels sitting around for hours. Not entirely sure what frequency BF really want on the Spanish crossings. 

I have thought up a timetable which would involve all three E-flexers operating the same schedule on different days on the Portsmouth-Spain and Portsmouth-Le Havre routes. In this scenario, Pont-Aven would stay put and Cap Finistere would replace Connemara.

Day 1 : 10:30-13:00 Portsmouth to Spain
Day 2 : 15:30-18:00 Spain to Portsmouth
Day 3 : 22:30-08:30 Portsmouth to Le Havre
Day 4 : 12:00-18:30 Le Havre to Portsmouth / 21:00-07:00 Portsmouth to Spain (No stop at Roscoff)
Day 5 : At Sea

Day 6 : 09:30-12:00 Spain to Portsmouth
Day 7 : 14:30-20:30 Portsmouth to Le Havre / 23:00-08:00 Le Havre to Portsmouth

(All times GMT)

Galicia would start Day 1 on Tuesday, Salamanca would start Day 1 on Wednesday and the 3rd vessel on Thursday. 

With 6 return crossings on the Le Havre route, Normandie could be sold. The only issue is the lack of any sailing on the seventh day. 

Thoughts? 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, georgem7 said:

I have recently been thinking about how the Spanish timetable might look once the E-Flexers arrive. Cap Finistere presently operates three crossings per week, she is however a faster vessel. Is it unrealistic to think the E-Flexer can match her current timetable? Meanwhile, Baie de Seine's timetable involves a lot of time in port and I don't think BF really want their brand new vessels sitting around for hours. Not entirely sure what frequency BF really want on the Spanish crossings. 

I have thought up a timetable which would involve all three E-flexers operating the same schedule on different days on the Portsmouth-Spain and Portsmouth-Le Havre routes. In this scenario, Pont-Aven would stay put and Cap Finistere would replace Connemara.

Day 1 : 10:30-13:00 Portsmouth to Spain
Day 2 : 15:30-18:00 Spain to Portsmouth
Day 3 : 22:30-08:30 Portsmouth to Le Havre
Day 4 : 12:00-18:30 Le Havre to Portsmouth / 21:00-07:00 Portsmouth to Spain (No stop at Roscoff)
Day 5 : At Sea

Day 6 : 09:30-12:00 Spain to Portsmouth
Day 7 : 14:30-20:30 Portsmouth to Le Havre / 23:00-08:00 Le Havre to Portsmouth

(All times GMT)

Galicia would start Day 1 on Tuesday, Salamanca would start Day 1 on Wednesday and the 3rd vessel on Thursday. 

With 6 return crossings on the Le Havre route, Normandie could be sold. The only issue is the lack of any sailing on the seventh day. 

Thoughts? 

 

 

I really think that happen if I honest 3 ship on the same schedule is a bit too much they would probably keep the same format of time tabling in my opinion 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They will not want to increase the Portsmouth-Spain passage time to more than 24 hours.  It was the ability to do this crossing in 24 hours which was the whole basis for the success of this route (where P&O had failed, largely becase the crossing took too long).  I’d be very surprised if they waste the new ships with Le Havre rotations - they’ll get 3 return sailings to Spain out of them, with crew change at Roscoff I’d have thought.

With two of them, this would enable them to offer the Roscoff-Bilbao link both ways, as one if them could make their crew change call northbound rather than southbound.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a head scratcher.

BF have three ships running to Spain which can also fit into Plymouth, Roscoff & Le Havre. Two of these are capable of 23/24hr crossings.

The E-Flexers can do neither of these things. At full speed they are slower than Baie du Seine and they are all too long for the West country and two French ports.

Will we have five ships running to Spain with two of them rotating to France and one to Cork and still maintain the faster crossing times or will it be like for like - just three ships at slower speeds with no Roscoff, Cork, Le Havre or Plymouth visits and no 23/24hr crossing times?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jonno said:

It's a head scratcher.

BF have three ships running to Spain which can also fit into Plymouth, Roscoff & Le Havre. Two of these are capable of 23/24hr crossings.

The E-Flexers can do neither of these things. At full speed they are slower than Baie du Seine and they are all too long for the West country and two French ports.

Will we have five ships running to Spain with two of them rotating to France and one to Cork and still maintain the faster crossing times or will it be like for like - just three ships at slower speeds with no Roscoff, Cork, Le Havre or Plymouth visits and no 23/24hr crossing times?

I think they will all slot in a Portsmouth to Cherbourg run somewhere in the schedule to change crew. Ed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

I think they will all slot in a Portsmouth to Cherbourg run somewhere in the schedule to change crew. Ed. 

I don't see why Ed, It's just as easy to ferry the crew across from a port they already have a crossing to and from rather than create another which costs time & money. If there was a market for a year round PIP/Cherbourg sailing BF would be doing it now.

Also it's only hearsay that these ships will be French registered and French crewed. They have Spanish names and will be Spanish themed with commissioned artwork etc from the regions their names are derived from... Who's to say that they won't be Spanish registered and crewed, it's not as if BF can use these vessels for cover anywhere?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, jonno said:

The E-Flexers can do neither of these things. At full speed they are slower than Baie du Seine

Wow, I hadn’t appreciated that.  That’s astonishing - and, as you say, a headscratcher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Wow, I hadn’t appreciated that.  That’s astonishing - and, as you say, a headscratcher.

All to do with fuel savings which is no bad thing for the environment or the balance books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, neilcvx said:

All to do with fuel savings which is no bad thing for the environment or the balance books.

No, but it brings the viability of Portsmouth-Santander into question.  All BF Spanish sailings went from Plymouth until they were able to bring Portsmouth within 24 hours of Santander.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose that with three ships eventually available they don't all have to stick to a seven-day individual schedule. They could be on a twenty-one day schedule allowing for a continuous shuttle over three weeks. As long one of the three always leaves and arrives either port at the same time on the same day each week it's fine. Ed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Gareth said:

No, but it brings the viability of Portsmouth-Santander into question.  All BF Spanish sailings went from Plymouth until they were able to bring Portsmouth within 24 hours of Santander.

The Caps 36 hour sailing still seems popular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jonno said:

It's a head scratcher.

BF have three ships running to Spain which can also fit into Plymouth, Roscoff & Le Havre. Two of these are capable of 23/24hr crossings.

The E-Flexers can do neither of these things. At full speed they are slower than Baie du Seine and they are all too long for the West country and two French ports.

Will we have five ships running to Spain with two of them rotating to France and one to Cork and still maintain the faster crossing times or will it be like for like - just three ships at slower speeds with no Roscoff, Cork, Le Havre or Plymouth visits and no 23/24hr crossing times?

Interesting. I was under the illusion they'd fit in Le Havre. I am sure you've mentioned before, but can you remind us the maximum length that can fit in Roscoff and Le Havre?

35 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

I suppose that with three ships eventually available they don't all have to stick to a seven-day individual schedule. They could be on a twenty-one day schedule allowing for a continuous shuttle over three weeks. As long one of the three always leaves and arrives either port at the same time on the same day each week it's fine. Ed. 

Going back to the drawing board, I have come to the same conclusion. They're sister ships so they are no different in capacity and therefore no problem in a three-week timetable. Say one leaves Portsmouth on a Monday at 10:00. If they are slower than Baie de Seine, they'll arrive evening time say 17:00/18:00. Their return will no doubt have to be two nights without unsocial arrivals so they are back Thursday morning in time to pick up a 10:00 again. In the meantime, the other two can leave 10:00 Tuesday and Wednesday and there you have daily sailings. Customers will appreciate consistent timings. They'll just have to establish what sailings go to Santander and which to Bilbao, the same time every week? Or one of the three serves Santander whilst the other serves Bilbao? 

I am sure they'll still run Pont-Aven from Portsmouth for those who want a quicker sailing. That'll be then 8 Spanish sailings from Portsmouth and 1 from Plymouth which in the scheme of things works quite nicely. 

Edited by georgem7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

All to do with fuel savings which is no bad thing for the environment or the balance books.

Well, I think you're half right. The next major company I come across which actually gives a damn about the environment will be the first. It's about money 1st, 2nd & 3rd.

Did BF run headlong into the clover when they decided to fit scrubbers? No, they banged on about the cost and about how MARPOL & IMO were bullying shipping companies. They change because the law dictates they do not because of any conscience pulling environmental issue.

You're switched on, you know the alternatives out there, you and I have discussed them previously. There's basically a far less or non polluting alternative for most things now so why don't they use them? Cost, it's all about the money.

I loved it when BF switched from the clear plastic cups in their bathrooms to the paper ones, due no doubt to the negative publicity which now surrounds the stuff. Firstly the paper cups go into landfill as the inner coating can't be recycled... clear plastic can, and secondly BF's rubbish isn't separated anyway it all goes to landfill.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jonno said:

It's a head scratcher.

BF have three ships running to Spain which can also fit into Plymouth, Roscoff & Le Havre. Two of these are capable of 23/24hr crossings.

The E-Flexers can do neither of these things. At full speed they are slower than Baie du Seine and they are all too long for the West country and two French ports.

Will we have five ships running to Spain with two of them rotating to France and one to Cork and still maintain the faster crossing times or will it be like for like - just three ships at slower speeds with no Roscoff, Cork, Le Havre or Plymouth visits and no 23/24hr crossing times?

 

Apologies as this is surely old news, but what sort of speed is required through the Bay to maintain a 24 hr crossing (taking account of harbour and channel speeds etc)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, georgem7 said:

Interesting. I was under the illusion they'd fit in Le Havre. I am sure you've mentioned before, but can you remind us the maximum length that can fit in Roscoff and Le Havre?

Going back to the drawing board, I have come to the same conclusion. They're sister ships so they are no different in capacity and therefore no problem in a three-week timetable. Say one leaves Portsmouth on a Monday at 10:00. If they are slower than Baie de Seine, they'll arrive evening time say 17:00/18:00. Their return will no doubt have to be two nights without unsocial arrivals so they are back Thursday morning in time to pick up a 10:00 sailing three days later. In the meantime, the other two can leave 10:00 Tuesday and Wednesday and there you have daily sailings. Customers will appreciate consistent timings. They'll just have to establish what sailings go to Santander and which to Bilbao, the same time every week? Or one of the three serves Santander whilst the other serves Bilbao? 

I am sure they'll still run Pont-Aven from Portsmouth for those who want a quicker sailing. That'll be then 8 Spanish sailings from Portsmouth and 1 from Plymouth which in the scheme of things works quite nicely. 

Their capacities are little different as the two LNG powered vessels have around 250 less lane metres, down to around 2750 in order to accommodate the gas powered engines and fuel tanks.

Roscoff can accommodate an outside max length of 205m. The Cap is the biggest they can get on there without the addition of another dolphin or similar. Le Havre is 200m plus I doubt there's room to offer any more, certainly not the 20m an E-flexer would require, the gvt boats wouldn't get out and they already have to use a boat to to tie up & release BDS. it's also worth remembering that both the Cap & BDS are nearly 3m narrower too and that Portsmouth must build berth extensions to accommodate them.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, georgem7 said:

I am sure they'll still run Pont-Aven from Portsmouth for those who want a quicker sailing. That'll be then 8 Spanish sailings from Portsmouth and 1 from Plymouth which in the scheme of things works quite nicely.

Personally I think they'll run all five with the Pont Aven offering a permanent 24hr crossing from Plymouth to Santander and Cap Finistere doing the same at Portsmouth to Bilbao. This has more to do with expansion rather than renewal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@jonno you are assuming I said BF we’re doing for their own environmental reasons rather than their legal obligation to the environment even if that means future proofing themselves as much as they reasonably can just now, either way the ships will be better for the environment going at a slower speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, neilcvx said:

@jonno you are assuming I said BF we’re doing for their own environmental reasons rather than their legal obligation to the environment even if that means future proofing themselves as much as they reasonably can just now, either way the ships will be better for the environment going at a slower speed.

But that's it Neil, they won't. They'll just burn fuel for a longer period generating more energy they can't reuse and those on board will just create more waste on a longer crossing as they'll consume more.

 

Edited by jonno
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jonno said:

But that's it Neil, they won't. They'll just burn fuel for a longer period generating more energy they can't reuse and those on board will just create more waste on a longer crossing as they'll consume more.

 

Sounds like the new ScotRail electric trains that make a racket regenerating electricity from the brakes that probably isn’t used.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jonno said:

Their capacities are little different as the two LNG powered vessels have around 250 less lane metres, down to around 2750 in order to accommodate the gas powered engines and fuel tanks.

Roscoff can accommodate an outside max length of 205m. The Cap is the biggest they can get on there without the addition of another dolphin or similar. Le Havre is 200m plus I doubt there's room to offer any more, certainly not the 20m an E-flexer would require, the gvt boats wouldn't get out and they already have to use a boat to to tie up & release BDS. it's also worth remembering that both the Cap & BDS are nearly 3m narrower too and that Portsmouth must build berth extensions to accommodate them.

Portsmouth don't need an extension they is still liked room for an extra 10 metres

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...