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BF Confirms Fourth New Ferry (Third E-Flexer)

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15 hours ago, Aiden said:

Portsmouth don't need an extension they is still liked room for an extra 10 metres

There's currently a tender in to re cover and extend berth 2, the contractor will be named June 25th with the work due to begin January 2020 to be completed by May 2020. The title of the project with the council is "berth levelling & extension works. Ref:2019/S 029-063963.

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Today (May 30th), the first steel cutting was performed on the fifth E-Flexer which will be for DFDS. The name of the vessel will be 'Côte d'Opale', due for delivery in 2021.

Edited by TonyMWeaver
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5 minutes ago, TonyMWeaver said:

She's had AIS switched on for a while, was in grey before though.

The yard building the Honfleur hasn’t managed to turn hers on and it’s been launched and worked on for longer.

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1 minute ago, jamie said:

The yard building the Honfleur hasn’t managed to turn hers on and it’s been launched and worked on for longer.

I doubt whether all her equipment has been connected and tested yet.

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Sorry if this has been explained somewhere, but why does Stena order a new build and then lease it to a third party, and why does BF not order the build itself?

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Presumably Stena make money from leasing them with the hope of getting their money back if it is eventually sold to the leaser and BF get a new ship without the initial cost, if things look good they can purchase in five years time.  Also there's the economy of scale, by buying 8 ships of basically the same design Stena get the ships a bit cheaper.

Edited by Solo
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Stena RO RO make a living out of owning ships and leasing them out to other Companies - only the Brittany Ferries and DFDS eflexers will be owned by that company, the others will be owned by one of the main Stena companies. BF currently lease 2 Stena ships and will shortly lease a third. The full list of Stena RORO ships is https://www.stenaroro.com/what-we-offer/fleet-list/

 

 

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Yes, that is Stena RORO’s fundamental business model.  It’s a win-win all around. As David says, BF (being the relatively small company that it is, and being as quirkily structured as it is) have had enough difficulty securing the funding for Honfleur.  No way would they be able to raise the funds to order three e-flexers at the same time.  This way they will probably still have the option of purchasing the vessels in the long run, but for the time being they keep their options open and their cashflow solvent.

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On 11/08/2019 at 11:10, Gareth said:

Yes, that is Stena RORO’s fundamental business model.  It’s a win-win all around. As David says, BF (being the relatively small company that it is, and being as quirkily structured as it is) have had enough difficulty securing the funding for Honfleur.  No way would they be able to raise the funds to order three e-flexers at the same time.  This way they will probably still have the option of purchasing the vessels in the long run, but for the time being they keep their options open and their cashflow solvent.

To add to this it will be more cost effective to use Stena’s new build programme to design and build these ships than going it alone (not to mention raising the finance as Gareth says - remember Pegasis!).  There also isn’t the potential issue of directly building ships for BF outside of France or Europe either, or needing to acquire the contacts and knowledge of the local way of working to do so (Stena RoRo have been present in China for a number of years doing just that).  Not only are Brittany Ferries getting the type of vessels they want, but they are getting them for a good price.  Brittany Ferries are also known to looked at alternative new builds at Visentini (Stena had a look too) - E-Flexer wasn’t the only option. 

Stena have the financial resources to purchase ships when they become available at the “right” price, and the in-house expertise and experience to take on big new build programmes such as E-Flexer simultaneously with others.  BF have a purchase option on all of their E-Flexers after the initial charter period (as do DFDS).  

On 11/08/2019 at 12:16, neilcvx said:

Then you have the BF ship that Stena lease .

Stena did want to purchase apparently, but the price was too high.  Another mutually beneficial arrangement.

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So far these are the delivery dates for all of the 214m E- Flexers. Info is courtesy of a contact at DVV Media based in Hamburg who build & supply maritime I.T. 

Stena... 0263 Estrid, December 2019... 0264 Edda, January 2020... 0265 Embla. September 2020.

DFDS... 0268 Cote D'Opale, February 2021.

Brittany Ferries... 0267 Galicia, December 2021... 0269 Salamanca July 2022... 0272 Santona April 2023.

The currently unnamed 240m variants planned are due for delivery during February & August 2022. 

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On 11/08/2019 at 10:49, Solo said:

Presumably Stena make money from leasing them with the hope of getting their money back if it is eventually sold to the leaser and BF get a new ship without the initial cost, if things look good they can purchase in five years time.  Also there's the economy of scale, by buying 8 ships of basically the same design Stena get the ships a bit cheaper.

Indeed. BF have spent about 400M recently on scrubbers and investment in new tonnage. They made about 10M profit I believe last year. Go figure. Even if everything went perfectly smoothly for BF, and the imbalance between outgoings and income was removed (euros/sterling), they just do not have huge sums like people such as Stena do to fork out up front.

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It will be interesting to see how things work out for the St Malo route in terms of fleet redeployment after all these new ships arrive.  If St Malo doesn’t end up being covered by Pont Aven (which doesn’t seem likely) then they will have to deal with the need to replace Bretagne somehow.  It’s such a niche route it’s hard to see second hand tonnage being the answer, and so we come to the issue of a new build.  Again, the route requirements are so specific that you’d think taking an off-the-shelf Stena design wouldn’t fit the bill, so for that one BF would really need to try to place an order directly.

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Presumably then unless Pont-Aven is moved to St Malo full-time once the new ships arrive, the Bretagne will be around for a few more years?

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2 hours ago, Gareth said:

It will be interesting to see how things work out for the St Malo route in terms of fleet redeployment after all these new ships arrive.  If St Malo doesn’t end up being covered by Pont Aven (which doesn’t seem likely) then they will have to deal with the need to replace Bretagne somehow.  It’s such a niche route it’s hard to see second hand tonnage being the answer, and so we come to the issue of a new build.  Again, the route requirements are so specific that you’d think taking an off-the-shelf Stena design wouldn’t fit the bill, so for that one BF would really need to try to place an order directly.

Agreed Gareth. I think a bespoke newbuild to replace Bretagne is certainly going to be their number 1 option. They just need to find another big chunk of £££.

I personally feel that this would have already happened if they opportunity to grab the e-flexers hadn't come along and been too good to pass up. Perhaps 1 new Spain ship would have been agreed, then replace Bretagne... but as things have turned out, maybe they are hoping Bretagne can hold out a bit longer until funds come along... afterall - they hardly have to worry about her losing her popularity with the punters.They would probably hang onto her for another 5-10 years if she wasn't simply too small and become too costly to run now.

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I thought BF had already approached St Nazaire to build Bretagne II with a negative response, as highlighted earlier this year on BFE with the links to the story. Wouldn't that suggest the finance is in place?

They could kill two birds with one stone now Ulstein have handed over Color Hybrid. Their RX104 would be a stunning Bretagne replacement and a couple of their smaller RX103's  would certainly stop the press as the conventional solution for Condor.

Bretagne was a statement back in '89, Ulstein's design would, I imagine, have a similar effect.

This is the 185m x 25m RX104. 1500 berths. 99 trucks and 640 cars over 3 decks and a lower hold.

RX104-Gray-May19-InAir-PS-Fore-Above.thumb.jpg.aa796a5b7f832ec5d66cbaf406dcd739.jpg

 

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47 minutes ago, jonno said:

I thought BF had already approached St Nazaire to build Bretagne II with a negative response, as highlighted earlier this year on BFE with the links to the story. Wouldn't that suggest the finance is in place?

They could kill two birds with one stone now Ulstein have handed over Color Hybrid. Their RX104 would be a stunning Bretagne replacement and a couple of their smaller RX103's  would certainly stop the press as the conventional solution for Condor.

Bretagne was a statement back in '89, Ulstein's design would, I imagine, have a similar effect.

This is the 185m x 25m RX104. 1500 berths. 99 trucks and 640 cars over 3 decks and a lower hold.

RX104-Gray-May19-InAir-PS-Fore-Above.thumb.jpg.aa796a5b7f832ec5d66cbaf406dcd739.jpg

 

Plus she looks like a frickin starship :) 
Should last easily another 30 years!

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It keeps being said that the Pont is to big, has to many cabins etc for St Malo but also that the Bretagnes daytime crossing is to long.  Would it be worth while doing work to the Pont, take out some cabins etc and turn her in to a true cruise experience, we keep hearing she's more ferry than cruise, why not turn it around? Give her a better passenger experience, one thing I would like is a restaurant a bit between the self service and the full  A La Carte.

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1 minute ago, Solo said:

It keeps being said that the Pont is to big, has to many cabins etc for St Malo but also that the Bretagnes daytime crossing is to long.  Would it be worth while doing work to the Pont, take out some cabins etc and turn her in to a true cruise experience, we keep hearing she's more ferry than cruise, why not turn it around? Give her a better passenger experience, one thing I would like is a restaurant a bit between the self service and the full  A La Carte.

The cruisy atmosphere on PA just makes her suited to a Spain sailing so well. The large bar, pool, wrap around deck, entertainment area. Lots of that would be wasted with a permanent St Malo positioning...

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I agree - Pont would do St Malo proud but St Malo is a bit of a waste of Pont.  I am predicting that Pont will continue to serve Spain, but from a Plymouth base.

As far as the St Malo day crossing is concerned, I’ve not seen any suggestion that it is “too long”.  On the contrary, the length of it (and the opportunity to properly relax) is a big part of the route’s charm.  Especially with so much to see on the southern half of it.

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Regarding Jonno’s point about the funding being in place, isn’t it likely to be the case that it might have been in place back then but that the e-flexer commitment may have eaten into it?

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