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DFDS 'Côte D’Opale'


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15 hours ago, RickOShea said:

Does anybody else find the idea of putting the children's play area adjacent to (or within as seems to be the case here) the main restaurant area a bad idea? These cafeteria-style areas are noisy enough at the best of times with trays, cutlery and chairs scraping and clattering but the added noise from children running to and fro doesn't help. 

Ed

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this has to be a record for slowest crossing?

DFDS have posted an update on the CDO progress: https://www.dfds.com/en-gb/passenger-ferries/onboard/dover-calais/new-ship

That is so true. In June, July and August, we were loading sometimes up to 400 cars in peak weeks, and some 50/60 lorries. But during the rest of the year, it was packed with freight, and only 20/30 c

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39 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Does anybody else find the idea of putting the children's play area adjacent to (or within as seems to be the case here) the main restaurant area a bad idea? These cafeteria-style areas are noisy enough at the best of times with trays, cutlery and chairs scraping and clattering but the added noise from children running to and fro doesn't help. 

Ed

If the numbers in the article are correct there will be up to 120 truck drivers in their own area plus up to 120 car loads of people. Does not look that busy people wise.

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2 hours ago, David Williams said:

If the numbers in the article are correct there will be up to 120 truck drivers in their own area plus up to 120 car loads of people. Does not look that busy people wise.

The reality is that Dover ferries tend to be mostly freight 70% of sailings.  Passengers are only significant on 30% of sailings.   

So if you take this new ship, you'll find for 70% of sailings, the specific car deck will be enough for all cars onboard.  However, in peak summer you'll find cars and caravans on the main deck so there will be many more than 120 cars.

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3 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Does anybody else find the idea of putting the children's play area adjacent to (or within as seems to be the case here) the main restaurant area a bad idea? These cafeteria-style areas are noisy enough at the best of times with trays, cutlery and chairs scraping and clattering but the added noise from children running to and fro doesn't help. 

Ed

This is fairly standard on many ferries (there is a kids play area within the main restaurant on the Stena and BF versions too).  The logic is that it is convenient for families after eating and you will often see families sitting at the tables near the kids play area so that they can let the children play and be able to keep a watch from their seat.

Personally, I'd hate a kids play area right beside an a la carte restaurant of any time, but despite not being a parenting type it doesn't bother me too much in a self service.  I tend to pop to a self-service for food fuel and go elsewhere.  You'll also find many that are particularly bothered about peace and quiet will buy the Premium Lounge and eat in there.  (My first choice!).

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24 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

The reality is that Dover ferries tend to be mostly freight 70% of sailings.  Passengers are only significant on 30% of sailings.   

So if you take this new ship, you'll find for 70% of sailings, the specific car deck will be enough for all cars onboard.  However, in peak summer you'll find cars and caravans on the main deck so there will be many more than 120 cars.

That is so true. In June, July and August, we were loading sometimes up to 400 cars in peak weeks, and some 50/60 lorries. But during the rest of the year, it was packed with freight, and only 20/30 cars left. 

This new ship will be perfect because 90% of the time, we don't have more than 100 cars to board. And still refusing some trucks despite 120 lorries capacity. The challenge with Côte d'Opale will be to respect the 45-minutes turnaround time although she has 3100 lm to fill.

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Don't forget Calais Port 2015 should be coming online this year. Although the Cote D'opale will have to turn around it may decrease the turn around time of the ships using it. Of course P&O's double enders will benefit the most.

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This is only about the time it takes to fill a ship with lorries and cars. If not mistaken, Spirit-class are taking a few minutes more to complete their calls. No surprising given the huge intake they have compared to a DFDS C-Class. 

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When in their daily schedules do they get a thorough internal clean?  The longer route vessels get (or are supposed to get) a thorough clean in between each sailing.  No way that can happen on the Dov-Cal ferries.  But they also have no break in those schedules, so when does the cleaning happen? (!).

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15 hours ago, Gareth said:

But these flexers are an order of magnitude bigger aren’t they?  

She is narrower, carries fewer passengers and has fewer lane metres than the Spirits.  She is 1.5m longer though!

Still getting my head round the freight capacities and how they will be used  but my understanding is that they both have two main freight decks and one dedicated car deck.

CDO has a further freight deck beneath the main one (that may not be used much) while the Spirit car deck is full length (which accounts for their greater "lanemetreage" even though they have less freight space.

The Spirits, I think, have four dedicated fixed ramps from the car deck to the upper freight deck - not sure if they ever use all of them (they seem to use the starboard bow one in Calais and both stern ones in this video) - but it does mean that you don't have to wait to unload the deck below. 

I'm not sure how loading of CDO's car deck works, but given it is not full length that may reduce flexibility a little, even if it does have fixed ramps.  Be good to know more

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1 hour ago, VikingVoyager said:

She is narrower, carries fewer passengers and has fewer lane metres than the Spirits.  She is 1.5m longer though!

Still getting my head round the freight capacities and how they will be used  but my understanding is that they both have two main freight decks and one dedicated car deck.

CDO has a further freight deck beneath the main one (that may not be used much) while the Spirit car deck is full length (which accounts for their greater "lanemetreage" even though they have less freight space.

The Spirits, I think, have four dedicated fixed ramps from the car deck to the upper freight deck - not sure if they ever use all of them (they seem to use the starboard bow one in Calais and both stern ones in this video) - but it does mean that you don't have to wait to unload the deck below. 

I'm not sure how loading of CDO's car deck works, but given it is not full length that may reduce flexibility a little, even if it does have fixed ramps.  Be good to know more

Lane metres on ferries are often confused as car lane metres and freight lane metres get confused.

There is a good image of the ramp to the separate car deck at https://www.niferry.co.uk/stena-estrid-first-look/  - it may create some short delays but I'd say you are talking minutes rather than 10s of minutes.   Dover vessels tend to work to "broad schedules" anyhow with many sailings departing slightly late if there is a lot of traffic.

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2 hours ago, Gareth said:

When in their daily schedules do they get a thorough internal clean?  The longer route vessels get (or are supposed to get) a thorough clean in between each sailing.  No way that can happen on the Dov-Cal ferries.  But they also have no break in those schedules, so when does the cleaning happen? (!).

A decent clean is managed between sailings as the crew swoop into cleaning mode between the passengers making their way to the car deck and the next load coming on.  Other cleaning such as brass and glass (often along with toilets) would tend to happen mid sailing once staff are released from the peak of demand in self-service restaurants etc.

There would usually be heavier cleaning on any gaps in the schedule at weekends.

One thing that helps is very often you'll find that demand both ways isn't constant so say at start of school holidays UK to France is packed but coming back less so and at end of school holidays it will be the reverse.   This allows staff to do more cleaning as the ship sails.

Broadly speaking, it all works.  In reality, I rarely see huge issues on any of the Dover ships.   If you do, its more a result of poor management or staff shortages than it not being possible.

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48 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

Lane metres on ferries are often confused as car lane metres and freight lane metres get confused.

There is a good image of the ramp to the separate car deck at https://www.niferry.co.uk/stena-estrid-first-look/  - it may create some short delays but I'd say you are talking minutes rather than 10s of minutes.   Dover vessels tend to work to "broad schedules" anyhow with many sailings departing slightly late if there is a lot of traffic.

That is a good picture, it certainly looks less practical than the Spirits but you sound infinitely more qualified to comment on the impacts. 

Overall, it sounds to me like the Spirits are the better passenger shifters while CDO will be better for freight (I'm talking here in efficiency terms, rather than on board experience). 

I've never been on Calais Seaways, I wonder if I might get chance this summer.

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36 minutes ago, VikingVoyager said:

There is a good image of the ramp to the separate car deck at https://www.niferry.co.uk/stena-estrid-first-look/  - it may create some short delays but I'd say you are talking minutes rather than 10s of minutes.

I suppose we also need to factor in that her car deck is much smaller too - so delays in unloading it may not matter much.

With 1.5 decks of public space to the Spirits 2 decks but half the passengers (when full) she should also feel spacious, if ultimately not as large

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56 minutes ago, VikingVoyager said:

 

I've never been on Calais Seaways, I wonder if I might get chance this summer.

I'd suggest planning a CALAIS SEAWAYS trip as soon as restrictions allow as I suspect she won't be around much into July.

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1 hour ago, RickOShea said:

 

I'd suggest planning a CALAIS SEAWAYS trip as soon as restrictions allow as I suspect she won't be around much into July.

Rick, you'll be the one for this question,

Is there a possibility that Calais Seaways may continue serving DFDS from Dunkerque to Rosslare if the route is sustainable or is her bow design unsuitable for the deeper open water of the Celtic Sea?

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5 hours ago, Gareth said:

When in their daily schedules do they get a thorough internal clean?  The longer route vessels get (or are supposed to get) a thorough clean in between each sailing.  No way that can happen on the Dov-Cal ferries.  But they also have no break in those schedules, so when does the cleaning happen? (!).

The ship decks (for the garage, and I'm only talking about the only ship I worked in DFDS : Côte des Flandres) are usually very clean because of the upmost maintenance and care by the crew. We had a weekly "lay-up" of six hours, in the Sunday nights when the crew clean the empty decks. The ambiant moisture and close-to-perfection cleanliness of the boarded vehicles does the rest of it. 

And if youa re talking about the ship's passenger accommodations, a numerous team does the job so quickly  during the calls, you cannot believe it. 

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32 minutes ago, jonno said:

Rick, you'll be the one for this question,

Is there a possibility that Calais Seaways may continue serving DFDS from Dunkerque to Rosslare if the route is sustainable or is her bow design unsuitable for the deeper open water of the Celtic Sea?

Let's treat this as a totally hypothetical question to stop me being repetitive about Ireland - France routes :)

In principle it's not impossible, I can't actually remember her cabin capacity to my shame.   But I don't think it's enough to make her viable on that route (something like 50 - I know DFDS removed those without facilities to create a bigger shop, trucker shower facilities etc).   These have also mainly been in crew use for years.

Additionally I'm not sure if the Stockholm Agreement rules are a problem for her in those waters.  This is why Stena couldn't use the Stena Europe on Fishguard - Rosslare as planned https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/enniscorthy-guardian/20210119/282870848470946 and https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/291819/con1_2a_ap3_1-2.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0ulSXpbuML7QZco2wyT3QywgzWsBRivhqhGAJVUFTQJCYp3zk-u8TRWIA

So I'd say not impossible but highly unlikely...and that's before we start discussing whether or not she'd be needed and let's not do that :) 

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5 hours ago, jonno said:

Is there a possibility that Calais Seaways may continue serving DFDS from Dunkerque to Rosslare if the route is sustainable or is her bow design unsuitable for the deeper open water of the Celtic Sea?

She is known to roll and pitch, even in the Dover Straits. So I would suggest she would be quite uncomfortable round Lands End into the Celtic Sea. Although she can carry the 120 trucks (as DFDS advertised) she is of less Lane metres compared to the three current ships, at around 1700m. 

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7 hours ago, VikingVoyager said:

I've never been on Calais Seaways, I wonder if I might get chance this summer.

She is one of my favourites, a lovely ship and the last one on the Dover Straits still with a quiet aircraft style seating area.

Well worth a trip if you can fit one in before she makes a one way trip.

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17 hours ago, Danim24 said:

She is known to roll and pitch, even in the Dover Straits. So I would suggest she would be quite uncomfortable round Lands End into the Celtic Sea. Although she can carry the 120 trucks (as DFDS advertised) she is of less Lane metres compared to the three current ships, at around 1700m. 

The killer is the cabin number in the current climate.   Even ignoring she might not get approved for the route.

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