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TonyMWeaver

Brittany Ferries Wants To Buy Condor Ferries

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Slightly economical with the truth there, Mr Luxon.  Of course she has no problems maintaining the schedule she has now ended up with, because Condor has reduced its demands on Liberation to one rotation per day.

But she had massive problems maintaining the schedule for which she was originally purchased, and which was managed successfully by her predecessors Express and Vitesse.  She simply couldn’t do it.  For understandable reasons, which we’ve discussed before, but she couldn’t do it.  So you stopped requiring her to.

But one rotation per day was not the economics that Condor had in mind of her when she was purchased.  The fact that she can successfully maintain half of what was intended from her when she was ordered does not hide the fact that she was a strategic mistake for this route.  

She spends just 8 hours of every 24 hour period at sea, and that’s all she can manage.  Even NEX and Barfleur can do more than that when BF schedules them to.  Was being in port two thirds of the time really what Condor spent all that money on Liberation to do?!

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4 hours ago, Khaines said:

Cats had quite a few problems in their latter days though.

But their not having problems now, because some money was spent on them

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4 minutes ago, captjack said:

But their not having problems now, because some money was spent on them

Agreed - which is why we need to give Libby a chance under a new company.  

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The cats never had to have their schedules cut to one rotation per day in order to cope.  So the comparison is not valid.

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And I think Liberation will have a great new chance, under BF ownership, if placed on a route for which she will be able to operate within her comfort zone.  I see no reason why she should not be able to run 2 rotations per day from Portsmouth to Cherbourg.  Freed from the shackles of operating to ports where they have to allow so much contingency time for turnarounds that she will finally stand a chance of being able to operate profitably by running the option of a second daily rotation.

BF’s bid may be the saving grace, not only for ferry services to the islands, but also for Liberation’s fortunes.

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8 minutes ago, Gareth said:

And I think Liberation will have a great new chance, under BF ownership, if placed on a route for which she will be able to operate within her comfort zone.  I see no reason why she should not be able to run 2 rotations per day from Portsmouth to Cherbourg.  Freed from the shackles of operating to ports where they have to allow so much contingency time for turnarounds that she will finally stand a chance of being able to operate profitably by running the option of a second daily rotation.

BF’s bid may be the saving grace, not only for ferry services to the islands, but also for Liberation’s fortunes.

Considering there are already vacancies from Portsmouth  to Cherbourg for the rest of this month on Normandie Express the idea of running two rotations a day with Liberation on that route seems ambitious. And this is August when demand is high. 

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I'm sure I read on here somewhere that the theory behind the purchase of the Liberation was to make the company more appealing to a potential buyer as the big investment in replacement tonnage would have been seen to be made and the cost savings of one ship doing the work of two would have looked good too.

I strongly agree that she is not the right ship for the Channel Island job, but I'm not sure she would be truly suited to any route from the British Isles.  I heard from reliable sources she was looked over by many reputable companies before being sold to Condor.  But like the Norman Leader/Nova Star she is a ship associated with lots of interesting rumours and speculation that will probably never be publicly confirmed.

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10 hours ago, Timmy said:

I strongly agree that she is not the right ship for the Channel Island job, but I'm not sure she would be truly suited to any route from the British Isles.

Yes, that is quite possibly the case.  I was working under the assumption that, for BF to be willing to pay anything like what the owners will be looking for for Condor, then they must see a suitable role for Liberation within the company.  I couldn’t see why they would want her on the books if they did not see a use for her unless they were able to acquire the company at a price that would enable them to effectively write Liberation off in the books.  But, of course, I may be wrong.

If BF does see a suitable role for her in the fleet, then I can only imagine this must be Portsmouth-Cherbourg (which, to respond to an earlier point, already operates through the summer on the basis of two daily return trips which I believe Liberation will be capable of maintaining).  It seems inconceivable to me that, however pleasant Liberation is to travel on, BF would keep her on the route that has incurred so much reputational damage from her deployment.  BF’s first priority will (surely?) be to aim to restore the reputation of the service.

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With the expected congestion at Portsmouth after Brexit and with BF wanting to buy Condor I wonder why Condor and BF don't agree between themselves to transfer the CI ships to Poole and the Barfleur to Portsmouth for the next 6 months. This would protect CI trade from the expected delays and make it easier for BF to cope with any delays on their main route. Brownie points for BF in protecting the CI. Win win I would have thought.

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12 minutes ago, G4rth said:

In hope - but with confidence.

In hope - but with no confidence.

 

What a difference the missing "no" made.🤔

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Gents, is this a genuine discussion about what may happen if BF buy Condor, or are you just trying to use the thread to make a political point?

If the former, what is your reasoning behind suggesting this might be remotely on the cards?  How do you foresee Barfleur running alongside NEX, and how do you see the CI ropax service dovetailing with Condor Liberation?

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and how do you see the CI ropax service dovetailing with Condor Liberation?

Well, there is a gap between the two hulls on Liberation so maybe the Ropax could sort of nudge in there. (Oooh Matron!)

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41 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Gents, is this a genuine discussion about what may happen if BF buy Condor, or are you just trying to use the thread to make a political point?

If the former, what is your reasoning behind suggesting this might be remotely on the cards?  How do you foresee Barfleur running alongside NEX, and how do you see the CI ropax service dovetailing with Condor Liberation?

Barf will stay as she is - she isn’t popular or suited to the longer routes, shuffling her around doesn’t work.  I think I remember someone said that she once served Portsmouth was it to Caen?   She wasn’t popular.  Lib carries freight as well, so she ought to stay, if Barfleur could do more freight only sailings leaving Lib to do pax to Poole - Cherbourg on specific days.  Leaving Rapide to do Poole - CI on those days.  I just cannot see BF putting NEX permanently in Poole, Lib can do a lot of the freight, she can carry a lot more than NEX or Rapide.  Reconfigure Barfleur to carry more freight or have her do freight only crossings several times a week.  Whatever opinions have on Lib, she is here and ought to be made use of in possible difficult times ahead.   

Now if BF had not got rid of Cotentin....🙄

 

Edited by Khaines
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1 hour ago, Gareth said:

Gents, is this a genuine discussion about what may happen if BF buy Condor, or are you just trying to use the thread to make a political point?

If the former, what is your reasoning behind suggesting this might be remotely on the cards?  How do you foresee Barfleur running alongside NEX, and how do you see the CI ropax service dovetailing with Condor Liberation?

The suggestion I made was for a 6 month transfer of the Condor vessels to Poole to alleviate any possible short term problems in supplies to the CI.If there are problems at Portsmouth as has been recently extensively discussed on local news in this area it might be thought sensible. I thought this might be relevant to this thread  with BF looking to purchase Condor. Moving Barfleur to Portsmouth on a temporary basis and the Condor vessels to Poole might be popular on the CI if it smooths any possible delays to their essential supplies like triangular bread rolls.

I appreciate that my original post made no mention of triangular bread rolls and must therefore be considered highly suspect. This is an omission I have tried to correct.😉

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Why bother with the faff of making all that freight get as far as Poole, though, when Southampton is ready and waiting at the end of the M3?  Road connections are much easier, nothing else at Southampton to contribute to the "congestion" you are worried about (whether alleged or real), and sailing schedules that would suffer minimal impact by the extra hour up the Solent.  Then the ropax service could continue independently of having to fit around thecustom for the fast ferry at Poole.  Surely, then, if there is a potential for unmanageable congestion at Portsmouth, then Southampton comes back into the reckoning as a viable ferry port?

Not that I think any of this has any bearing on the prospect of a BF takeover of Condor.  If BF was really worried about congestion at Portsmouth, would their magic solution really be "I know, let's move Barfleur there as well?"!  Seems unlikely that this is their motive for wanting to acquire Condor.

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BAI are obligated to operate the Poole - Cherbourg and Plymouth - Roscoff routes, it's laid down in the operating agreements made with SOMABRET & SOMANOR. There are only three factors which effect this, weather, financial viability & fleet maintenance.

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10 hours ago, Gareth said:

Why bother with the faff of making all that freight get as far as Poole, though, when Southampton is ready and waiting at the end of the M3?  Road connections are much easier, nothing else at Southampton to contribute to the "congestion" you are worried about (whether alleged or real), and sailing schedules that would suffer minimal impact by the extra hour up the Solent.  Then the ropax service could continue independently of having to fit around thecustom for the fast ferry at Poole.  Surely, then, if there is a potential for unmanageable congestion at Portsmouth, then Southampton comes back into the reckoning as a viable ferry port?

Not that I think any of this has any bearing on the prospect of a BF takeover of Condor.  If BF was really worried about congestion at Portsmouth, would their magic solution really be "I know, let's move Barfleur there as well?"!  Seems unlikely that this is their motive for wanting to acquire Condor.

From what you're saying you clearly haven't understood what I was trying to say or the reasons behind it. Unfortunately I'm not eloquent enough to make it any plainer.

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25 minutes ago, G4rth said:

From what you're saying you clearly haven't understood what I was trying to say or the reasons behind it. Unfortunately I'm not eloquent enough to make it any plainer.

Well you are one of the more eloquent members of the forum G4rth, so I would not level any criticism of you on that front!  But don’t worry, I understand exactly what you were saying.  (On both levels 😉).

The point you argued was about a way of alleviating a suggested increase in congestion at Portsmouth.  You suggested moving the Channel Island ropax service to Poole.  I replied to suggest that it would be less inconvenient to customers expecting to travel from Portsmouth, less conflicting with the existing fast ferry from Poole, and would achieve the same result at Portsmouth, to move the departure port to Southampton rather than Poole.

Please tell me if this misunderstands the premise of your point.

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