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Brittany Ferries Wants To Buy Condor Ferries

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36 minutes ago, wortley said:

I am amused to think of fruit and veg from mainland Europe being trucked and ferried to the UK then shipped back to Jersey / Guernsey by Morrisons, Waitrose etc in the way Jonno has described. I can think of a shorter supply line. 

Don’t Forget Guilvenec’s original idea was to get the  produce from  his co operative(s) to a  wider market, The new “common market” not to transport Holiday makers from the U.K., that was just a secondary thing.

Just a ridiculous as fruit passing the CI by sea only to end up there is, As has been pointed out by detective  work on this forum. Fish, Scallops caught in the bay of the Seine, by a Scottish Trawler, landed in Shoreham, finding there way to SuperU in France where they are sold as Scottish, even though the EU required labelling states they were caught in the BDS. 

Thats what happens when politicians get involved, the worlds  has gone mad. And then they prove how stupid they really are by saying they did not realise how important Dover Calais is to our economy.

If you look currently on AIS you can see that in the BDS lots of small ships on IFA guard duty, they are guarding works being carried out on IFA2 a DC sub sea cable from Merville, just to the east of Ouistreham to Daedalus ( Lee on Solent) which will provide a second means of France supplying the U.K. with electricity and vice versa.

i’m not Sure how the the CI get electricity but I do know it’s not far from the huge Flamanville power station in Manche.

We are all inter-dependant on each other in our own way.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, alleeganger10 said:

i’m not Sure how the the CI get electricity but I do know it’s not far from the huge Flamanville power station in Manche.

I believe Jersey generates its own in a dedicated power station while Guernsey has a cable link to France. Ed. 

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Blue Islands grew out of a daily air service between Alderney and Cherbourg that was set up to bring fresh produce and bakery items to Le Cocqs stores in Alderney. Not dissimilar to the origins of Brittany Ferries if you think about it.

By the way, Jonno. The Guernsey to London City route is history - but the point is valid.

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Condor binned Weymouth and use Pompey and Poole. Only BF use those same two ports. They share berths and terminal space. Routes and markets also have a lot of crossover too. It all seems a little too perfect! I really hope BF work something out:)

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37 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

I really hope BF work something out:)

I do too, my feeling is that the Islands have been on the wrong end of a short straw but the only way in until 2021 is to buy Condor. It does give them two years to source a couple of modern RoPax and more recent and suitable HSC's?

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On reading this post I have noticed that know one has commented the fact that BF, did run a service from the Islands to France, some years ago, and left, so why would they think of taking the Condor service over to extend from the Islands, to the main land when or if they wish just take the route back. ??

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They didn't run that service from France to the islands. It  was Channeland who were linked to what was Sea France / Sealink SNAT. Their catamaran St Malo was holed off Corbiere headland in 1994.

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On 22/06/2019 at 11:49, Nick Hyde said:

Big difference is there are a very very finite number of vessels of the Clipper size and over time will she become increasingly more expensive to maintain and less reliable. So we need to plan for a time when they become prohibitively expensive to maintain. We need replacements sooner rather than later. Also we need a replacement of Goodwill with a ro pax so that we can overnight passenger sailings in BOTH directions. This has already been hinted at by Condor in the past - replacing Goodwill with a ro pax. 

We are in a similar position with Barfleur, she is pushing 30 and although she seems to be safe for the time being, her, and two other fleetmates - how long will they have, and her  being a smallish ferry on a very short route any ro paxes of a similar size and build are few and far between.  Unless a newbuild, which I just cannot see happening for Poole.  In our case I have suggested Nova Star in the past as she is only marginally bigger than Barfleur, and I think quite suitable.  But that gets poo-poo’d here, I seriously think she’d be a good bet!  Difficult to think of other similar sized vessels with decent enough facilities that would fit the BF image, lol.  And they will have some very special boots to fill.

This is the same problems the islands have, they are very limited to what vessels will fit unless they go for a new build, so if a buyer is prepared to do this, it will be tricky.   Small ro paxes, modern ones are difficult to come by.  At least Nova Star WAS built for the Channel, but no way she’d fit in the CI, if she’s bigger than the Barfy.

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7 hours ago, Nick Hyde said:

They didn't run that service from France to the islands. It  was Channeland who were linked to what was Sea France / Sealink SNAT. Their catamaran St Malo was holed off Corbiere headland in 1994.

Thank you Nick, for the update and for the info of it being linked to Sea France, I do recall Sealink and back to the days when BR, had it, only as my Dad, had checked the Tickets on the boat and trains when I was a Kid. ;-))

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Monopolies and merger comes to mind as it would be only BF at Poole and Portsmouth. Dangerous for the port's.

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56 minutes ago, adicat said:

Monopolies and merger comes to mind as it would be only BF at Poole and Portsmouth. Dangerous for the port's.

What about Bilbao, Roscoff, Santander, St Malo!??

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I think you have to remember that other companies CHOOSE not to operate. They are not blocked from doing so.

In a similar way that Bryman Airways used to run out of Plymouth Airport (primarily) 

With the exception of Plymouth (which I believe BF had exclusivity rights on the main berth until recently, at least during certain hours), ships / ferries / cruise liners are free to use any of the ports BF operates, as long as they have been authorised and arranged to do so with the Port Authorities etc, surely?!

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1 hour ago, hf_uk said:

I think you have to remember that other companies CHOOSE not to operate. They are not blocked from doing so.

They'll need to look at whether BF are erecting significant enough barriers to entry into the entire western channel market that it's anti competitive.

In past CMA enquiries, such as the Irish and Dover P&O/Stena ones and the Stena/DFDS one they've looked at the market being served and what competition there is. In that respect apart from a negligible bit of UK to France traffic there's not really much overlap between BF and Condor.

However if they consider that BF are trying to deter new entrants into the entire western channel market they may take more interest - although that would be a much more difficult case to assess and judge. 

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On 30/06/2019 at 19:28, Khaines said:

We are in a similar position with Barfleur, she is pushing 30 and although she seems to be safe for the time being, her, and two other fleetmates - how long will they have, and her  being a smallish ferry on a very short route any ro paxes of a similar size and build are few and far between.  Unless a newbuild, which I just cannot see happening for Poole.  In our case I have suggested Nova Star in the past as she is only marginally bigger than Barfleur, and I think quite suitable.  But that gets poo-poo’d here, I seriously think she’d be a good bet!  Difficult to think of other similar sized vessels with decent enough facilities that would fit the BF image, lol.  And they will have some very special boots to fill.

This is the same problems the islands have, they are very limited to what vessels will fit unless they go for a new build, so if a buyer is prepared to do this, it will be tricky.   Small ro paxes, modern ones are difficult to come by.  At least Nova Star WAS built for the Channel, but no way she’d fit in the CI, if she’s bigger than the Barfy.

Why wouldn't BF build a new ferry to serve Cherbourg when the time comes? The port handles more passengers than St Malo, Roscoff or Le Havre with 70% of those heading from Poole and four times as much freight as Roscoff, twice as much as St Malo 99% of which again heads to or from Poole.

Poole seems to be ignored simply because Barfy just quietly gets on with it as she's so suited to the route. Strategically it's very important for BF. She's a very versatile ship, It's only her lack of berths which means she's not exploited more. I think there's only 3 ports she's never sailed to, Le Havre, St Malo & Bilbao.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, jonno said:

Why wouldn't BF build a new ferry to serve Cherbourg when the time comes? The port handles more passengers than St Malo, Roscoff or Le Havre with 70% of those heading from Poole and four times as much freight as Roscoff, twice as much as St Malo 99% of which again heads to or from Poole.

Poole seems to be ignored simply because Barfy just quietly gets on with it as she's so suited to the route. Strategically it's very important for BF. She's a very versatile ship, It's only her lack of berths which means she's not exploited more. I think there's only 3 ports she's never sailed to, Le Havre, St Malo & Bilbao.

 

 

I can imagine BF would replace Barfleur before too long, but I doubt with a newbuild.

With the 3 e-flexers coming, and potentially a new Bretagne, they will have room to shuffle things about a bit won't they. CF would not be suitable I imagine?

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1 minute ago, hf_uk said:

I can imagine BF would replace Barfleur before too long, but I doubt with a newbuild.

With the 3 e-flexers coming, and potentially a new Bretagne, they will have room to shuffle things about a bit won't they. CF would not be suitable I imagine?

Why? it wasn't that long ago that £10m or so was spent fitting her scrubbers something BF would probably have to do all over again buying what would inevitably be a preloved Visentini which has been passed around from pillar to post and flogged to death. The list of issues with Connemara after ANEK had finished with her could have been written on a toilet roll. 

I'd take a leaf out of Stena's book and not be too quick to dispose of tonnage which is perfectly suitable for the job.

No CF wouldn't be suitable, too big in every department.

For me hf, the two coming to the end of their BF lives before Barfy are Normandie and Bretagne. They are far more attractive in terms of onboard facilities to the 2nd hand market, I can see both replacing Moby Drea & Moby Otta. Normandie has far too many berths for Le Havre, I doubt she'll ever a be a third full and Bretagne internally is too small with too many sardine like cabins. When Galicia arrives don't be too surprised if you see CF replace Normandie as she's configured more appropriately and I think it's a poorly kept secret that Bretagne will be replaced with a new build.

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5 minutes ago, jonno said:

Why? it wasn't that long ago that £10m or so was spent fitting her scrubbers something BF would probably have to do all over again buying what would inevitably be a preloved Visentini which has been passed around from pillar to post and flogged to death. The list of issues with Connemara after ANEK had finished with her could have been written on a toilet roll. 

I'd take a leaf out of Stena's book and not be too quick to dispose of tonnage which is perfectly suitable for the job.

No CF wouldn't be suitable, too big in every department.

For me hf, the two coming to the end of their BF lives before Barfy are Normandie and Bretagne. They are far more attractive in terms of onboard facilities to the 2nd hand market, I can see both replacing Moby Drea & Moby Otta. Normandie has far too many berths for Le Havre, I doubt she'll ever a be a third full and Bretagne internally is too small with too many sardine like cabins. When Galicia arrives don't be too surprised if you see CF replace Normandie as she's configured more appropriately and I think it's a poorly kept secret that Bretagne will be replaced with a new build.

Because... I doubt they could afford it! (yet)

I would imagine that would be priority 2 or 3, after they shove all the Visentini's out the fleet...

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5 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

Because... I doubt they could afford it! (yet)

I would imagine that would be priority 2 or 3, after they shove all the Visentini's out the fleet...

I suppose that's what makes the subject a bit interesting, you could of course still replace Normandie with CF then flog NEX & Barfy having Poole carry all of the volume aboard Normandie to Cherbourg and she'd still be under the same management group... My only obstacle with that is I think Barfy is a less attractive ship to sell due to her lack of beds.

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Yes

49 minutes ago, jonno said:

I suppose that's what makes the subject a bit interesting, you could of course still replace Normandie with CF then flog NEX & Barfy having Poole carry all of the volume aboard Normandie to Cherbourg and she'd still be under the same management group... My only obstacle with that is I think Barfy is a less attractive ship to sell due to her lack of beds.

Yes, and over the years she hasn't been flogged as much as Bretagne. Can probably hold out a little longer...

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2 hours ago, jonno said:

Why wouldn't BF build a new ferry to serve Cherbourg when the time comes? The port handles more passengers than St Malo, Roscoff or Le Havre with 70% of those heading from Poole and four times as much freight as Roscoff, twice as much as St Malo 99% of which again heads to or from Poole.

Poole seems to be ignored simply because Barfy just quietly gets on with it as she's so suited to the route. Strategically it's very important for BF. She's a very versatile ship, It's only her lack of berths which means she's not exploited more. I think there's only 3 ports she's never sailed to, Le Havre, St Malo & Bilbao.

 

 

She WAS built specifically for the route, that is why she is so suitable.  But we don’t know how many years she has along with the others, scrubbers or not.  Normandie in Poole, cannot see it, sorry, a short route like Barfy’s requires a smaller vessel.  Poole doubles well as a short crossing for tourists as well.  Which is why I suggested Nova Star, even though she gets grief on here.  I think people should not be too quick to judge her because of her past, she is quietly getting on with it in Poland and from what I have seen quite popular!  I was merely suggesting we need a ship of a similar size which are few and far between, and I just cannot see BF building again for Poole.  We are lucky to have Barfy back anyway after a few years ago - which we all know about.  I know I bang on about Nova Star (who incidentally you can still see her original name of Norman Leader under her paintwork)  but just have the right feeling about her.  Specs comparison below.

Nova Star specs

161m x 26.6m Draught 5.9m Tonnage 277.44

Deadweight 4145 t

————————

Barfleur 

158 x 23.30. Tonnage 20.133 Draught 5.8

Deadweight 5250t

 

 

Edited by Khaines

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8 minutes ago, Khaines said:

She WAS built specifically for the route, that is why she is so suitable.  But we don’t know how many years she has along with the others, scrubbers or not.  Normandie in Poole, cannot see it, sorry, a short route like Barfy’s requires a smaller vessel.  Poole doubles well as a short crossing for tourists as well.  Which is why I suggested Nova Star, even though she gets grief on here.  I think people should not be too quick to judge her because of her past, she is quietly getting on with it in Poland and from what I have seen quite popular!  I was merely suggesting we need a ship of a similar size which are few and far between, and I just cannot see BF building again for Poole.  We are lucky to have Barfy back anyway after a few years ago - which we all know about.  I know I bang on about Nova Star (who incidentally you can still see her original name of Norman Leader under her paintwork)  but just have the right feeling about her.  Specs comparison below.

Nova Star specs

161m x 26.6m Draught 5.9m Tonnage 277.44

Deadweight 4145 t

————————

Barfleur 

158 x 23.30. Tonnage 20.133 Draught 5.8

Deadweight 5250t

 

 

Interesting you say about Poole being a short sea alternative.... just how near it is. Poole - Cherbourg is 83.5 miles. If Pont Aven were to whip over at her (original) top service speed, she could it in a shade under 3 hours!

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2 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

Interesting you say about Poole being a short sea alternative.... just how near it is. Poole - Cherbourg is 83.5 miles. If Pont Aven were to whip over at her (original) top service speed, she could it in a shade under 3 hours!

The problem with that is those passengers who joined the queue for Les Abers on leaving Poole would only just have been ushered to their tables as she entered the breakwater in Cherbourg. 😉 Ed. 

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45 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

The problem with that is those passengers who joined the queue for Les Abers on leaving Poole would only just have been ushered to their tables as she entered the breakwater in Cherbourg. 😉 Ed. 

I think you mean Le Flora 😜 

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25 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

Quite right. It's 33°C again here and my brain is obviously cooking. 😉 Ed

I know I've just got out of the pool...smug smug😂😂

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