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TonyMWeaver

Brittany Ferries Wants To Buy Condor Ferries

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1 hour ago, hf_uk said:

Interesting you say about Poole being a short sea alternative.... just how near it is. Poole - Cherbourg is 83.5 miles. If Pont Aven were to whip over at her (original) top service speed, she could it in a shade under 3 hours!

Depends if Pont can make it half - way without conking out.

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2 hours ago, Khaines said:

She WAS built specifically for the route, that is why she is so suitable.  But we don’t know how many years she has along with the others, scrubbers or not.  Normandie in Poole, cannot see it, sorry, a short route like Barfy’s requires a smaller vessel.  Poole doubles well as a short crossing for tourists as well.  Which is why I suggested Nova Star, even though she gets grief on here.  I think people should not be too quick to judge her because of her past, she is quietly getting on with it in Poland and from what I have seen quite popular!  I was merely suggesting we need a ship of a similar size which are few and far between, and I just cannot see BF building again for Poole.  We are lucky to have Barfy back anyway after a few years ago - which we all know about.  I know I bang on about Nova Star (who incidentally you can still see her original name of Norman Leader under her paintwork)  but just have the right feeling about her.  Specs comparison below.

Nova Star specs

161m x 26.6m Draught 5.9m Tonnage 277.44

Deadweight 4145 t

————————

Barfleur 

158 x 23.30. Tonnage 20.133 Draught 5.8

Deadweight 5250t

 

 

I don't doubt it especially after the work PolFerries have done, her draft is now 6.2m rather than the previous 5.9m and she has a restaurant, self service & cafe plus 648 beds in 162 4 berth cabins but more crucially she now has 2790 lane metres split 60-40  between HGV's and cars. Compared to her previous incarnation now she's Nova Star in name only.

Brigitte... enjoy.

 

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15 minutes ago, jonno said:

I don't doubt it especially after the work PolFerries have done, her draft is now 6.2m rather than the previous 5.9m and she has a restaurant, self service & cafe plus 648 beds in 162 4 berth cabins but more crucially she now has 2790 lane metres split 60-40  between HGV's and cars. Compared to her previous incarnation now she's Nova Star in name only.

Brigitte... enjoy.

 

Lovely, ain’t she, quite posh.  She only has the one public deck like Barfleur, I thought she had two.  Someone posted a large photoset of her on Facebook and she looks very spacious and a lot going on for a vessel only a few meters bigger than Barfy.  Probably easier to see how well she is doing with Polferries as well, before she was stuck in far off locations.  I just hope Polferries don’t put bow art on her, she looks perfectly ok as she is.

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Polferries haven't done anything significant to the Nova Star apart from removing the grime and decay of a few years of neglect... She was laid up in the shipyard in Gdansk for ages not because they were doing much work on her but because of a sort of corporate inertia between Polferries and the owners. On board she's just a tidied up version of the ship which operated for Inter Shipping.

She's a nice ship to travel on though and Polferries do some nice mini-cruise offers but will still never be suitable for a heavy-ish freight route .

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1 hour ago, jonno said:

I don't doubt it especially after the work PolFerries have done, her draft is now 6.2m rather than the previous 5.9m and she has a restaurant, self service & cafe plus 648 beds in 162 4 berth cabins but more crucially she now has 2790 lane metres split 60-40  between HGV's and cars. Compared to her previous incarnation now she's Nova Star in name only.

Brigitte... enjoy.

 

Has the increase in draft also increased running costs?

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44 minutes ago, hhvferry said:

Polferries haven't done anything significant to the Nova Star apart from removing the grime and decay of a few years of neglect... She was laid up in the shipyard in Gdansk for ages not because they were doing much work on her but because of a sort of corporate inertia between Polferries and the owners. On board she's just a tidied up version of the ship which operated for Inter Shipping.

She's a nice ship to travel on though and Polferries do some nice mini-cruise offers but will still never be suitable for a heavy-ish freight route .

They must have done something she only had 1600 lane metres prior to heading to Remontowa, she began her PolFerry charter with over 1500 lm's dedicated for trucks and 1200 for cars.

 

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2 minutes ago, nick hall said:

Has the increase in draft also increased running costs?

According to DNV GL compared to her removed previous Bureau Veritas class, her GT has increased by 300 tonnes from 27,444 to 27,744 and her NT is up from 11,000 to 12,106, this was re registered during 2018 at Gdansk, so I assume any added fuel burn cost will be offset by her greater loading capacity income. Engines are the same 10L32/44CR's and her gen sets are the same too.

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7 hours ago, jonno said:

They must have done something she only had 1600 lane metres prior to heading to Remontowa, she began her PolFerry charter with over 1500 lm's dedicated for trucks and 1200 for cars. 

 

She has two full height freight decks which were designed for 1,500lm total so any figures quoting that are just quoting the original spec rather than what she can actually carry in practice. Inter Shipping only ever used the upper freight deck for cars to keep her off her marks.

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I just did two dummy bookings trying to keep the options as similar as possible.

The first was with Polferries overnight out on the last Saturday in July and back the Sunday night with just 5 hours ashore (if you come back the following night it's a different, older ship) for a car with two passengers and the cheapest cabins still available. That came to 3915 SEK which is around 380€ on an 8 year-old ship with a choice of eateries and which still looks fresh and new for an 18-hour crossing. 

The second was on Barfleur from France to the UK overnight on the last Sunday in July and back on the Monday night giving around 14 hours ashore, again for two adults in a car with the cheapest available cabins. That was 651€ on a ferry pushing 30 years of age with no formal restaurant and a trip that can be done in around 4 hours. 

Hmmm! 🤔 

Ed. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

I just did two dummy bookings trying to keep the options as similar as possible.

The first was with Polferries overnight out on the last Saturday in July and back the Sunday night with just 5 hours ashore (if you come back the following night it's a different, older ship) for a car with two passengers and the cheapest cabins still available. That came to 3915 SEK which is around 380€ on an 8 year-old ship with a choice of eateries and which still looks fresh and new for an 18-hour crossing. 

The second was on Barfleur from France to the UK overnight on the last Sunday in July and back on the Monday night giving around 14 hours ashore, again for two adults in a car with the cheapest available cabins. That was 651€ on a ferry pushing 30 years of age with no formal restaurant and a trip that can be done in around 4 hours. 

Hmmm! 🤔 

Ed. 

 

Is that not just showing the different value in different routes? You have to compare the cost of living etc of the customers you are attracting.

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If she came to BF, I bet she would be on the same price as Barfleur.  I have always suggested her because she is a lovely ship, and dare I say it, posher than Barfleur with more facilities, it is the lack of faciilities that put people off the Barfy, and she isn’t that much bigger either.  

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You are not suggesting that somehow it has mutated into a Barfleur-centred thread, are you? That's never happened before! Ed. 

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28 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

You are not suggesting that somehow it has mutated into a Barfleur-centred thread, are you? That's never happened before! Ed. 

I would say it is a Nova Star centred one.  She actually has her own thread in Other Ferry Operations, so possibly posts and talk of her could be shifted there and merged into that..😉

 

Edited by Khaines

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1 hour ago, Khaines said:

I would say it is a Nova Star centred one.  She actually has her own thread in Other Ferry Operations, so possibly posts and talk of her could be shifted there and merged into that..😉

 

I believe the first Barfleur reference in this thread was yours in the 10th post. Ed. 

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22 hours ago, hhvferry said:

However if they consider that BF are trying to deter new entrants into the entire western channel market they may take more interest - although that would be a much more difficult case to assess and judge. 

If they get their hands on the leaked internal memo to BF staff outlining the company's intentions then the aim of deterring any competition is pretty clear, and potentially damming. Ed. 

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16 hours ago, Paully said:

I know I've just got out of the pool...smug smug😂😂

I am in an office and it's 25, but everyone is moaning that it's cold.

I wonder if they will hire one of these for lunch hour!?

image.png.21441f65e08f460f71d1cd6b90135366.png

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19 hours ago, hf_uk said:

Yes

Yes, and over the years she hasn't been flogged as much as Bretagne. Can probably hold out a little longer...

Is that right though?

Barfleur spent time on DO CAL for another operator - hardly a relaxing break. Meanwhile Bretagne has been pootling around under the careful administrations of BF with a nice rest over the winter months in recent years.

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21 hours ago, jonno said:

Why wouldn't BF build a new ferry to serve Cherbourg when the time comes? The port handles more passengers than St Malo, Roscoff or Le Havre with 70% of those heading from Poole and four times as much freight as Roscoff, twice as much as St Malo 99% of which again heads to or from Poole.

Poole seems to be ignored simply because Barfy just quietly gets on with it as she's so suited to the route. Strategically it's very important for BF. She's a very versatile ship, It's only her lack of berths which means she's not exploited more. I think there's only 3 ports she's never sailed to, Le Havre, St Malo & Bilbao.

 

 

As always, those are very interesting stats. Thanks! Do we know how they relate to the relative profitability of the routes / ships?

It almost seems to me that there will be more pressure to ensure that Barfleur is replaced than Bretagne. If there's an opportunity to improve freight numbers further and add a more flexible ship to the fleet on an already profitable route then you might think that the opportunity would be taken. 

Meanwhile, many people seem very happy with Bretagne as she is. She seems to keep St Malo ticking over on a route with high prices. Could a new ship increase passenger numbers significantly or justify a hike in fares?

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4 hours ago, VikingVoyager said:

Is that right though?

Barfleur spent time on DO CAL for another operator - hardly a relaxing break. Meanwhile Bretagne has been pootling around under the careful administrations of BF with a nice rest over the winter months in recent years.

I believe so. Even including Barfys' Truckline days... Bretagne has spent more time at sea. Not just on longer crossings (St Malo and Roscoff) but also don't forget was the Spanish headliner for all those years too. I would say she has endured considerably more wear and tear...

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Most of the wear and tear occurs during berthing operations when the engines are changing speed and the ship is moving backwards and forwards. Chugging along at economical speed puts less stress on the machinery. It's a bit like car engines wearing out faster if they are just used for short trips rather than long runs.

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Biscay and Western channel operations over that many years would surely have an effect too? Barfy hardly gets a battering weather-wise?

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Anyone who does Roscoff regularly knows that those big rollers coming in from the Atlantic when they hit the channel, pack a punch. 

Barfy doesn't know she's born:)

 

Anyway - on a totally separate topic, and much more 'on-topic' here... I saw on the news that the Gov has a plan for a new "express sea service" if no-deal brexit happens again in October. For medicines etc. £3m allocated, and totally separate tot he other deals/re-deals/cancellations etc from the previous contracts.

I wonder if this would include Condor, and if that is a factor in recent interest? 

I cannot think of another "express" sea service which runs year round??

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