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Gareth

BF Refit Season 2019-20

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24 minutes ago, MichaelBF said:

but she is huge - I don't think people appreciate how much bigger she is than the remainder of the fleet.

She's long, she's not huge. Armorique is as tall and wider. The reason she's so heavy is because the yard over engineered her to cut down on vibration at higher speeds.

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I don't think any of Bf's fleet could be called huge in comparison with rival European operators.  I think even PA is outside the top 25 largest ferries in europe in GRT. Always think Cap looks very elegant though. 

I'm sure this has been asked before, but what's the reason that Cap requires an annual dry dock when the rest of the fleet seems to be alternate years?

I know she covers big distances in all weathers, but she can't be massively busier than PA. Granted Pont has a quieter winter but then Cap always has a few weeks off herself.

Edited by Tumnus2010
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31 minutes ago, Tumnus2010 said:

I don't think any of Bf's fleet could be called huge in comparison with rival European operators.  I think even PA is outside the top 25 largest ferries in europe in GRT. Always think Cap looks very elegant though. 

I'm sure this has been asked before, but what's the reason that Cap requires an annual dry dock when the rest of the fleet seems to be alternate years?

I know she covers big distances in all weathers, but she can't be massively busier than PA. Granted Pont has a quieter winter but then Cap always has a few weeks off herself.

Read first part of my post on page 9.

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@TonyMWeaver - Thanks for sharing... but, again, please make sure you appropriately credit photos and their source. A link to your own Facebook group, which itself gives the original source, is not sufficient nor fair to the original photographer.

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3 hours ago, TonyMWeaver said:

New photos of 'Cap Finistere' in Santander sent last night.

'Connemara' is due to leave Astander tomorrow, 'Bretagne' is now in Dock 3 in Gdansk.

24.jpg

21.jpg

Fair bit of cavitation damage on her twin rudders, I'm surprised they're not stainless steel coated with sacrificial carbon steel over the top also there's a good deal of blade corrosion, you can see how the zinc has leeched out (the red). This is either caused by more galvanic corrosion or electrolysis... makes me wonder if the scrubber washwater discharged from the keel is effecting the sea water electrolytes speeding up the process. I'd like a closer look at those blades to see if any peeling has occurred.

If she was dry docked last year for similar work this is more damage than I'd expect.

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14 minutes ago, Jim said:

@TonyMWeaver - Thanks for sharing... but, again, please make sure you appropriately credit photos and their source. A link to your own Facebook group, which itself gives the original source, is not sufficient nor fair to the original photographer.

If you read the captions @Jim, the photographer has been named.

The photos today of Cap Finistere are from the same photographer as Connemara.

Edited by TonyMWeaver
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7 minutes ago, jonno said:

Fair bit of cavitation damage on her twin rudders, I'm surprised they're not stainless steel coated with sacrificial carbon steel over the top also there's a good deal of blade corrosion, you can see how the zinc has leeched out (the red). This is either caused by more galvanic corrosion or electrolysis... makes me wonder if the scrubber washwater discharged from the keel is effecting the sea water electrolytes speeding up the process. I'd like a closer look at those blades to see if any peeling has occurred.

If she was dry docked last year for similar work this is more damage than I'd expect.

Not quite sure what you are referring to? The props will suffer the type of corrosion you mention due to their alloy composition. There is some red showing, but probably remaining red antifoul paint? The rudders would not be fabricated from the same alloys. Mild steel I guess, and visible corrosion would be different? Something that size out of stainless would be unusual and very expensive.

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1 minute ago, colin said:

Not quite sure what you are referring to? The props will suffer the type of corrosion you mention due to their alloy composition. There is some red showing, but probably remaining red antifoul paint? The rudders would not be fabricated from the same alloys. Mild steel I guess, and visible corrosion would be different? Something that size out of stainless would be unusual and very expensive.

Manganese bronze blades aren't painted in anything. I know the rudders are made of carbon steel, the damage on them is due more to exploding oxygen bubbles and the energy forces they create. Considering the prolonged speeds she was build to do and her smaller blade size you'd expect a degree of armouring in a similar way to the coatings used in thruster tunnels, a thin stainless jacket wouldn't be cost prohibitive if it prolongs her time in the water and lessens the amount of work needed.

I wouldn't expect to see this level of decay in just 9 months.

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1 hour ago, TonyMWeaver said:

If you read the captions @Jim, the photographer has been named.

The photos today of Cap Finistere are from the same photographer as Connemara.

Fear not Tony, I can read and I can see the captions which feed through from Facebook - it is however the first of the three posts for CF which is uncredited. We've issued enough general reminders on this recently so shouldn't be a surprise.

@TonyMWeaver and @neilcvx - I've removed a number of the posts from both of you earlier on the grounds they were effectively a childish spat and not the behaviour we'd expect from members of this site. If this behaviour continues, the mods have been asked to place posting restrictions on your accounts or remove them as required. We don't invest our time and energy to referee a playground. Grow up.

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3 hours ago, neilcvx said:

@jonno what do her sister ships do? Do they have similar issues?

She only has one real sister, Superfast VI which I believe has no scrubbers fitted and certainly doesn't have the same dry dock schedule. The only difference between the two is that during construction the Cap was fitted with different reduction gear due to the usual contractor supplying faulty sets so rather than wait and delay her launch Attica chose a different manufacturer. Another difference from No 5 onwards is that after the fire aboard SFIII all of the vehicle deck wiring was enclosed in the hull casing rather than across exposed cable gantries.

Attica only built 4 of them with a C1 ice classification.

I'm not at home so I can't be too specific but they tended to build them in batches of two using three different yards in Northern Europe, two in Germany and another in Finland.

I'd be interested in knowing what the schedule is for the three Stena have, they were quick to sign a maintenance agreement with Harland's specifically for VII & VIII bought from Tallink.

They're also working on another three designs, one is a vehicle & passenger ferry specifically for small ports.

Edited by jonno
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45 minutes ago, Gareth said:

So is that four BF vessels off service on refit at the same time? (In addition to NEX laid up).  Must be some kind of record?

Don't forget that there were 4 of the fleet together briefly in Santander last week too, I've not known that to happen before.

1 hour ago, Tumnus2010 said:

Presume Bretagne will get a full repaint and start to look a lot better than the tip exed version applied last winter? 

 

They will all get a repaint or touch-up this year, with the exception of 'Connemara'.

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26 minutes ago, TonyMWeaver said:

Don't forget that there were 4 of the fleet together briefly in Santander last week too, I've not known that to happen before.

They will all get a repaint or touch-up this year, with the exception of 'Connemara'.

Including Armorique? Suppose a touch up can be completed outside a dry dock.

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5 minutes ago, MichaelBF said:

Including Armorique? Suppose a touch up can be completed outside a dry dock.

Forgot 'Armorique', she's didn't look too bad the last time I saw her. She'll get a clean at least. However, yes, I would think a touch-up could be done while in the water. Most of the rust marks on the ships should just clean off, it's only on the surface.

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27 minutes ago, TonyMWeaver said:

Forgot 'Armorique', she's didn't look too bad the last time I saw her. She'll get a clean at least. However, yes, I would think a touch-up could be done while in the water. Most of the rust marks on the ships should just clean off, it's only on the surface.

The problem with BF ships is that they generally don't stay still for long enough. Real cruise ships have very frequent stops for 12 hours at a time and they get the paint brushes out regularly.

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6 hours ago, jonno said:

Fair bit of cavitation damage on her twin rudders, I'm surprised they're not stainless steel coated with sacrificial carbon steel over the top also there's a good deal of blade corrosion, you can see how the zinc has leeched out (the red). This is either caused by more galvanic corrosion or electrolysis... makes me wonder if the scrubber washwater discharged from the keel is effecting the sea water electrolytes speeding up the process. I'd like a closer look at those blades to see if any peeling has occurred.

If she was dry docked last year for similar work this is more damage than I'd expect.

A lot of assumptions/assertions taken from a picture here. Only saying that with an expert witness background in failure investigation of steel assemblies...

I couldn't draw such conclusions from a couple of pictures. 

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2 hours ago, crechbleiz said:

A lot of assumptions/assertions taken from a picture here. Only saying that with an expert witness background in failure investigation of steel assemblies...

I couldn't draw such conclusions from a couple of pictures. 

No not really, I don't need a few weeks investigation to know sheet and vortex cavitation erosion when I see it... but so what? It's an occupational hazard caused by the medium she operates in, it's not about failure.

My question was whether the washwater causes more electrolysis speeding up the process as it was only 9 months ago that she looked the same and looking more closely at Stena's none scrubber operating No VII & VIII, they don't suffer in the same way.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Fine Whine said:

She's in a hurry, currently racing along at almost 25 knots. I'll try to pop down this week for a few photos and find out what work is being carried out.

Chris

She's back in service next Monday, you'll have until early Monday morning to get piccies. As far as I know, she's only getting the usual maintenance done, Scrubbers Maintenance, touch up, etc...

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