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Halfcrown

Lieshmaniasis - should BF be giving advice to dog owners?

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For those who (like me until a couple of years ago) don't know, Leishmaniasis is a disease caused by a parasitic microorganism, and it is transmitted via sandfly bites. Dogs are particularly at risk. Originally from North Africa, the disease is spreading northwards. Within the EU it has become endemic in Spain - especially in Andalusia, Valencia and the Balearics which are now considered high risk areas. It is also in Cyprus and Romania.

Protection is easy - there is an annual vaccination, which gives reliable protection, although it takes a few weeks for the protection to develop. Unfortunately not many vets in the UK carry the vaccine, and there is little advice being given to dog owners about the need for it when planning to take their dogs to Spain.  In my case, I was able to ask my Spanish to vaccinate during my winter visit (when the risk is low) so that my dog was fully protected in time for my Summer visit. 

I think Brittany Ferries are in an excellent position to help spread the information about this - especially as they are in the market of helping people travel to Spain with their dogs. I believe they are also in a position to help encourage vets to carry the vaccination. 

What do we  think would be the best way of bringing this to the company's attention to encourage action?

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The challenge here is BF are not a vets - they have to comply with certain animal related law for the transport of animals and share information associated to that. 

As a dog owner, totally understand the point you're making and also something that's news to me - but I'm not sure BF are the right channel to spread the word.

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Clearly BF cannot give veterinary advice, but I'm not sure that's what I had in mind.

I think they can suggest to their customers that they seek advice regarding this from their own vets.

My experience with vets (and indeed medics in general) is that they do tend not to answer questions until they have been asked... It was only when I asked about it (prompted by having seen posters up in my Spanish vet's surgery) that I discovered what the dangers were and how simple the protection was. If people do not know to ask, they will not be advised.

I also think the BF are in an excellent position to work with vets - via contact with the RVC perhaps - to encourage vets to offer advice when PETS passports are being produced.

 

 

 

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Since BF already have a webpage giving advice on taking your pets abroad they may be willing to look into this and add the info to their page.  Maybe just email customer services with your suggestion and see what they have to say.

Edited by Angel
missing word

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Sorry, but where would this stop?  What about the Processionary Caterpillar for example.  We have a dog too, so of course we share your concern.  I think all you can expect BF to say is something like "consult with your vet as there are diseases and other hazards to be found in Spain (and France no doubt) which do not exist in the UK."

The traveller should also make his/her own enquiries and visit various forums which discuss some of the dangers lurking for dogs and other pets.  But the main responsibility must lie with the veterinary profession to be clued up and offer good advice and the necessary medications or vaccinations.

When we first went to Spain (albeit in the winter, we don't go any other time) my wife visited our vet who provided a small package of various treatments to be given at regular intervals.  We were happy with that and had read about the caterpillars and sand fly.

Maybe you would be better taking your concerns to the BVA?

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As an aside, I am somewhat amused by this.....

BF may not be vets, they are however the  policemen  of the pet passport scheme, as the The douanes and border force have no interest in it at all, they have enough problems with humans.

In our own experience there are huge inconsistencies in the way they and other organisation police the vet passport scheme, an example is that if we come to France via Eurotunnel no checks are carried out on our dog at all. if we come to France by BF I have to scan my dog. The same happens when we come back to the UK Referring the French BF site certain race of dog are not allowed to enter the U.K. but how is that fact checked ? Check in operatives  never meet the dogs ( at Eurotunnel they do ) and are the check in operators trained to recognise the race of a dog precluded by U.K. law from entering the U.K.?

BF’s problem is that with Brexit looming the policing of the scheme is about to get twice as complex. And BF have no clue. Already they have inconsistency’s  between check in operatives, some of whom will accept things others will not. 

Maybe I should not say this, but BF please note, I do have the Eurotunnel option .... I foresee yet another price hike coming....

Getting back to the O.P. I thinks it’s good that this information is posted, I’m sure if it becomes a problem the DEFRA/APHA will get a handle on it .... eventually. by which time responsible owners will already have taken the steps need to eradicate it, because of posts like this so thank you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by alleeganger10
Typo
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It will get slightly more complex for check-in purposes if there is No Deal and the UK is an Unlisted 3rd Country.  Your dog must have had a successful blood test for Rabies antibodies (the blood sample must be taken no less than 30 days after latest vaccination/booster; you must wait 3 calendar months after the blood sample was taken before entering the EU; you need to get an Animal Health Certificate from your vet to enter the EU.  The AHC will certify that all that has been done.  To enter the UK the Pet Passport or the AHC will be acceptable.

So the check-in will check the AHC for going to the EU and the PP or AHC for coming back.  So not much difference.  The problems are mainly for the pet owner, trying to understand the convoluted advice on the Govt. website.

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This has been around for many years now and in Spain most dogs now get a jab for that,our dogs were done straight away when the injection came available in Spain.you are right it is spreading in every direction and it would be a good idea for pet owners to be advised  about this.we came back to the uk a couple of years ago and when we were going back for a few months I asked local vets about it and none knew anything about.the only thing I was told was to get it done when you get to your destination.very surprised British vets (robbing b------s)have not thought this is another money making thing to jump onto ,when evidence came out it is spreading towards us.as for the processionary catapillers it is already in the uk.3 years ago I was in a beers garden right beside the port and talking to the landlord he showed me a candy floors type stuff.i knew what it was and told him to report straight away to the local council.over the years I must of burned thousands of them.

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42 minutes ago, auchmill said:

It will get slightly more complex for check-in purposes if there is No Deal and the UK is an Unlisted 3rd Country.  Your dog must have had a successful blood test for Rabies antibodies (the blood sample must be taken no less than 30 days after latest vaccination/booster; you must wait 3 calendar months after the blood sample was taken before entering the EU; you need to get an Animal Health Certificate from your vet to enter the EU.  The AHC will certify that all that has been done.  To enter the UK the Pet Passport or the AHC will be acceptable.

So the check-in will check the AHC for going to the EU and the PP or AHC for coming back.  So not much difference.  The problems are mainly for the pet owner, trying to understand the convoluted advice on the Govt. website.

Nobody has said anything about what you say,third world country ,don't know about that .we are still in Europe since I looked at the atlas.i have seen Russian dogs and other people on holiday with there dogs Norway,Switzerland to name two others.so I don't think we have to worry about this.mind you may be right because the eu must be sick and tired what is going on in our once great country.they may have plans to set us adrift.

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51 minutes ago, auchmill said:

you must wait 3 calendar months after the blood sample was taken before entering the EU; 

Yes that’s correct for dogs with Passports issued in the U.K. but it isn’t as simple as that.

 if your Dog has a passport issued in the EU prior to Brexit, ( French EU passports are 20 ish Euros vs 60+ GBP for a U.K. issued passport) And you have a Titration test taken and certified by an EU certified lab prior to Brexit, then the 3 calendar months are waived...

checked with APHA. And they confirm to us this is the case , BF say  that as APHA make the rules they must be correct, even if  an individual check in person does not agree.... So  not so simple after all.

We shall see, I for one will n ot travel without my dog, who is my saviour in many ways.

 

Edited by alleeganger10
Typo - again

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5 hours ago, nodwad said:

over the years I must of burned thousands of them.

Presumably you do so with 'fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency' etc. To paraphrase Monty Python, 'nodwad expects the Spanish inquisition!' Ed. 

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I said after Brexit if there is no deal and we're an unlisted 3rd country.  While we're in the EU nothing has changed.  If there is no deal then everything has changed and what I said is correct.  If you look at the AHC & the advice for completion, (after Brexit) then the vet has to certify that 3 months has elapsed.

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You are looking at the worse possible thing that could happen,do you really think rest of eu would class us has a unlisted third country..?regarding household pets going and coming from Europe.it is the best interest of all to keep this agreement going.there is a lot of scare mongering going on about brexit in which I agree but the next few weeks will tell us all where we are heading.

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2 hours ago, nodwad said:

You are looking at the worse possible thing that could happen,do you really think rest of eu would class us has a unlisted third country..?regarding household pets going and coming from Europe.it is the best interest of all to keep this agreement going.there is a lot of scare mongering going on about brexit in which I agree but the next few weeks will tell us all where we are heading.

They will have no choice under EU law we will be an unlisted 3rd county at the moment we leave with no deal.

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7 hours ago, JohnMustow said:

They will have no choice under EU law we will be an unlisted 3rd county at the moment we leave with no deal.

Isn't that just the problem, EU law, all of our standards are under EU law but 1st Nov suddenly they're not accepted. I know it's off topic but shows where the problem is.

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2 minutes ago, Solo said:

Isn't that just the problem, EU law, all of our standards are under EU law but 1st Nov suddenly they're not accepted. I know it's off topic but shows where the problem is.

I think all EU laws were converted into UK laws at the beginning of the Brexit process so standards should be included and remain the equivalent of what is found on the continent. The law in question here is how the UK is seen in the eyes of the EU after 31 October. This obviously can't be avoided and will affect how they interactive with us even if the standards on both sides of the channel are effectively identical. Ed. 

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11 hours ago, nodwad said:

You are looking at the worse possible thing that could happen,do you really think rest of eu would class us has a unlisted third country..?regarding household pets going and coming from Europe.it is the best interest of all to keep this agreement going.there is a lot of scare mongering going on about brexit in which I agree but the next few weeks will tell us all where we are heading.

The advice on the Government website about 3rd country status is quite clear.  If there is a deal, if there is an extension, if we crash out but the EU allows us a listed status then it might be different.  But at the moment if we leave without a deal, or any other arrangement, on the 31st of Oct then we will be an unlisted 3rd country and therefore if you want to take your pet abroad you will have to follow the guidance.  We have taken the necessary precautions for the worst case scenario.  If you don't and the worst happens, ie 3 rd country unlisted, forget about taking your pet to the EU because your vet will not give you an Animal Health Document.  End of.

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