Cotentin - Returning to Brittany Ferries in 2021

[Gareth]

31 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

Or you could say, the sister of one of the youngest and most versatile vessels in the fleet, and one which have never been seen by non-freight passengers. economical, and suited to both ports! She was only discarded because she bled cash on French sailings. Was always packed to Spain!

That’s the enlightend enthusiasts version. Won’t cause any excitement among the average member of the public.

(I’m only addressing the query as to why there hasn’t been a big fanfare announcement about this, and advocating a theory that this maybe because, however interesting we may find it, it is not big PR material).

[Khaines]

Converting Cotentin would cost a lot of money.  Surely if she came back she should be on a dedicated freight role she was intended for.  Converting her for pax would then have to dedicate precious freight space for cars and whatever. Unless the plan on just letting footies use her.  I would say, as hf said, the Spain route from Poole.  If she bled cash on French sailings, then why put her back on them - I presume she will be doing Cherbourg?   Some things aren’t making sense here.  

[hhvferry]

10 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

(I don't work in PR)

It's strange, I wonder why Stena wanted her in the first place. They have so many roro/ropax. BF are chartering 2 or 3 at the moment arn't they...

There's not that many twin level loading driver/freight ferries out there, which is what is optimal for the role she does on Karlskrona-Gdynia. Stena's Visentinis wouldn't work for the route as they'd be too slow to turn around without making/before them drive through. It's, coincidentally, also why the Barfleur ended up on Dover-Calais when DFDS couldn't find anything else which fit the bill and might be a very useful attribute for the Barfleur when she comes to be sold.

[chris990]

15 hours ago, Seashore said:

If entertaining speculation...

Cotentin: Poole-Cherbourg

Barfleur: Plymouth-Roscoff

Armorique: Portsmouth-St Malo

Bretagne: thank you for 32 years

(ducks for cover!)

Armorique's lack of Restaurant wouldn't go down well with regular travelers to St Malo especially on the overnight from Portsmouth

[Cabin-boy]

7 minutes ago, chris990 said:

Armorique's lack of Restaurant wouldn't go down well with regular travelers to St Malo especially on the overnight from Portsmouth

That could I imagine be relatively easily rectified though by splitting off part of the existing self-service area. Ed. 

[hf_uk]

15 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

That could I imagine be relatively easily rectified though by splitting off part of the existing self-service area. Ed. 

A restaurant does not suite Armorique's primary EX-UK schedules, being overnight...

Would it suite Poole? Only a 4 hour crossing?

[hf_uk]

15 hours ago, Seashore said:

If entertaining speculation...

Cotentin: Poole-Cherbourg

Barfleur: Plymouth-Roscoff

Armorique: Portsmouth-St Malo

Bretagne: thank you for 32 years

(ducks for cover!)

That would be a great way to kill Plymouth. Can't see it happening. Armorique needs at least 3 times the cabins than Barfy has...

[nottingham]

8 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

A restaurant does not suite Armorique's primary EX-UK schedules, being overnight...

Would it suite Poole? Only a 4 hour crossing?

I  have often thought if there was a lunchtime departure from Roscoff and an earlier evening departure from Plymouth, a decent restaurant would be justified on the route

[jonno]

4 minutes ago, Cabin-boy said:

That could I imagine be relatively easily rectified though by splitting off part of the existing self-service area. Ed. 

She's wholly unsuitable for St Malo, you'd need to build another 100 4 berth cabins and find space for a further 100 cars

Back to Barfy, she's certified for 450 passengers regardless of what the BF site says. Cotentin won't need too much work in order to bring her specs up to match as she already has more bed space and she'll still be capable of carrying around 100 freight units, 25 more than Barfy.

[Khaines]

49 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

That would be a great way to kill Plymouth. Can't see it happening. Armorique needs at least 3 times the cabins than Barfy has...

Barf being sent to Plymouth...🤣

[Solo]

43 minutes ago, nottingham said:

I  have often thought if there was a lunchtime departure from Roscoff and an earlier evening departure from Plymouth, a decent restaurant would be justified on the route

Would that work in with crew hours, at the moment they work from 2 until roughly Midnight, 10 or 11 hr, if they leave Roscoff before lunch that would mean crew starting work at about 11, leading to a 13hr day.  This could lead possibly to needing two crew shifts each day.  It would be interesting to see the figures for the PA Thursday nights in the restaurant, I know the crossing is popular but would it work every night of the week.  I know the Sunday morning sailing the restaurant is used but not that busy.  For us the later sailing works well, we can visit the supermarket and Chris to stock up and then have lunch before boarding.

[Khaines]

Regarding my posts over the past year about recalling Cotentin is a lesson in be careful what you wish for...😉

[Penlan]

On 17/10/2019 at 12:34, hhvferry said:

No on Stena Baltica they are still shared. It's a bit disconcerting to find/hear someone else using your loo. Although then again on the Primrose once we had a private cabin and still someone else managed to get in, make their mark, and exit whilst we were out on deck. 

Barfleur should be a good buy on the second hand market. One very careful owner, from a very good shipbuilder, not that old, relatively lightly used for a chunk of her life and, most importantly, quite a handy size for some operators. If Stena hadn't just ploughed loads into the Europe she might have been a nice buy for Fishguard.

She'd also do well for someone on the middle distance Moroccan routes or even an Aegean inter island operator. I'm sure, unless she has underlying mechanical issues, she has plenty of life yet.

If Stena had not spent beyond stupid money on the Europa which has barely passed safety tests for hull integrity for a few years now. Would be wild to have Barfleur up in Fishguard but would she get onto the linkspan?

Rhys

[giloine]

I think it will be a light conversion for Poole-Cherbourg route (no need large passengers accomodation) and a light budget..... something from that : 

To that :

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by giloine

[jonno]

24 minutes ago, giloine said:

I think it will be a light conversion for Poole-Cherbourg route (no need large passengers accomodation) and a light budget..... something from that : 

To that :

 

Nicely done.

[neilcvx]

Careful using BF images with regard to what’s been posted elsewhere .

[TonyMWeaver]

[Khaines]

On 17/10/2019 at 20:38, Khaines said:

Are BF going to issue a press release about this?  I was told via Messenger via someone who works on Barfy, that BF have said that the French journalist who wrote the article has “jumped the gun” and have not decided what they are going to do with regards to Cotentin and Barfleur.  So quite confusing.  I wish BF would issue an official statement.

Quoting myself in respect to the previous post, this is roughly what I was told.  Quite frankly I can see Cotentin back in the fleet, but not replacing Barfy, but more likely to be providing extra freight capacity in the way she was designed to do as a freight ship.  Depending on what happens regarding the freight situation after Brexit, things may well be temporary with regards to extra freight capacity needed.  So a permanent solution to a temporary situation with regards to converting a dedicated freight ship to one that serves passengers as well is quite a drastic move.  Cotentin may well be temporarily recalled to fulfil the freight situation as it may well be for a year or so, then go back to Stena as a dedicated freighter.   Cannot see them messing about with her too much.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Khaines

[TonyMWeaver]

11 minutes ago, Khaines said:

Quite frankly I can see Cotentin back in the fleet, but not replacing Barfy

I agree, I can't see 'Barfleur' going anywhere.

[neilcvx]

Well if Mike Hood said in capitals it’s not confirmed then it mustn’t be happening 😏

[Khaines]

Question - Has Cotentin got scrubbers fitted?

[hf_uk]

On 18/10/2019 at 22:08, jonno said:

Nicely done.

I disagree. They will want her to make money. Barfleur never had enough cabins. I reckon they need at least 150, so double Barfy. 2/3rds Armorique. So a little larger than that...

[TonyMWeaver]

No, I don't believe she has.

Edited October 21, 2019 by TonyMWeaver

[jonno]

1 hour ago, hf_uk said:

I disagree. They will want her to make money. Barfleur never had enough cabins. I reckon they need at least 150, so double Barfy. 2/3rds Armorique. So a little larger than that...

Do you think? Barfy's pax capacities have steadily fallen from 1200 to 900 and now 450.

The route carries 211,000 passengers per year as a day sailing vessel. In her current configuration Barfleur could manage 315,000 per year but can't carry more freight than her 75 trucks plus her 72 cabins are all 4 berth.

The illustration is nicely done, it's a good effort... better than what I could cobble together in the same time as @giloine produced his.

A build similar but as wide as to enclose her life boats, matching what she already has and flat at the stern rather than stepped would giver her a day sailing capacity of around 650-700, more than enough. She already has 116 cabins adding another 8 outward facing into the extension would giver her 224, these could be 4 berth deluxe. 100 two berth and 124 four berth would giver her an overnight capacity of 696 berths (less than 100 fewer than the Arm') and still retain her 120 truck capacity.

That would give a yearly potential of at 245,000 pax on a Poole-Cherbourg day sail and a single overnighter back again could yield 243,600 pa and 240 trucks overall per day...

The conversion also has to be cost effective and per foot rebuilds are more expensive than new builds, BF won't have her like another Armorique as a complete rebuild from deck 5 up would be silly money on a 12 year old ship plus her truck capacity would be reduced to something similar meaning it would be less than Barfy's. Freight wise Armorique is one of the least useful in the fleet.. which is fine for Roscoff as it only handles around 25 trucks a day, if that, Bretagne handles twice as much and she's the least freight orientated of them all.

Poole is only 67 nm from Cherbourg. At 22kts Cotentin can manage that in less than 4 hours meaning another day crossing can also be added increasing capacity even further.

I also have a feeling that once done Cotentin will cover Ouistreham for winter maintenance as she'll be the largest freight carrier which can fit and Armorique will cover Poole weather permitting!)

[Seashore]

7 minutes ago, jonno said:

She already has 116 cabins adding another 8 outward facing into the extension would giver her 224, these could be 4 berth deluxe. 100 two berth and 124 four berth would giver her an overnight capacity of 696 berths (less than 100 fewer than the Arm') and still retain her 120 truck capacity.

116 + 8 = 124 cabins, if all are 2-berth except the 8 then that’s 264 berths.

Where would the extra 100 cabins and 432 berths go? That would give her about as many berths as Normandie or MSM.

Sorry if I’m missing something in the calculation.