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Cotentin - Returning to Brittany Ferries in 2021


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32 minutes ago, Solo said:

I didn't explain very well, I was thinking more about storage tanks etc down in the depths of the ship and the capacity of the electrical system, which would all have been built to handle a certain number of cabins and people on board.  As has been said it's all possible but it's not just a case of putting some cabins on top, it's a major job.

I think we all agree that to modify Cotentin is a major job and will be expensive but it will be less so than a new build and BF aren't venturing into unknown territory with a lot of head scratching around a drawing board as they did the same at an earlier stage to Armorique - she was essentially Cotentin at one point. The designers can draw from that. They already have the plans and basically know where to fit everything in order to create a ship capable of carrying as many as 1500 and having 248 cabins if they want to.

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A few of her from the pilot boat this morning. 

Hope this is ok - uploaded to you tube.    

The only place she can go right now is back down the canal towards the sea. Any other direction and she's likley to get a bit stuck. Ed

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I haven't read through the entire topic (apologies), but modifying for passenger service could be as little as reconfiguring the existing accommodation or even adding a small extension.  Its not necessarily a full scale rebuild.  I don't see Armorique II happening personally (if nothing else they'll want to preserve freight capacity surely?), though perhaps somewhere in between?  I guess it depends on where they see the future for the route in a couple of years time.

On 17/10/2019 at 12:37, Khaines said:

Soooooooo - my thoughts.  Well, seeing as I have in the past here said that Cotentin ought to return as I feel in the present climate regarding Brexit and freight, she should be recalled!

 

You assume she CAN be recalled prior to the end of her contract (which I assume must end in 2021?).

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38 minutes ago, Seashore said:

Barfleur has 72 cabins. Cotentin has 120 cabins.

Why would Brittany Ferries want to add more, and take up a lot of space, on a shorter sea route which usually sails at day? And if it doesn't it still has more cabins than Barfleur.

Why did they want to build a ship which carries less passengers and passenger vehicles for their busiest and most popular route, Honfleur?

Why do they want to use a 2000 pax ship and an 84 unit freight capacity, on a route which currently carries a maximum 370 passengers and 95 freight units and has increasing freight numbers?

Cotentin would be better used at Le Havre even as she is and Normandie better used at Poole reducing capacity to her berth numbers.

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7 minutes ago, tarbyonline said:

I haven't read through the entire topic (apologies), but modifying for passenger service could be as little as reconfiguring the existing accommodation or even adding a small extension.  Its not necessarily a full scale rebuild.  I don't see Armorique II happening personally (if nothing else they'll want to preserve freight capacity surely?), though perhaps somewhere in between?  I guess it depends on where they see the future for the route in a couple of years time.

You assume she CAN be recalled prior to the end of her contract (which I assume must end in 2021?).

I've wondered whether it'll be sooner with the Avic ships arriving at least one of the Mersey Visentini's could replace her after lengthening?

No I don't think it'll be a full scale Armorique, they'll not want to lose the 20 freight unit advantage Barfleur has over her but a build which reduces to Cotentin's capacity from 120 to around 80 isn't out of the question.

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1 minute ago, jonno said:

I've wondered whether it'll be sooner with the Avic ships arriving at least one of the Mersey Visentini's could replace her after lengthening?

We'll see.  A lot will depend on what Stena want to do fleet wise over the next few years.  "Baltica" could be quite useful elsewhere, perhaps even slotting into a Nordica-like relief ship role?  It wouldn't be the first time Stena sold a ship prior to replacement tonnage arriving and had to use something as a stop-gap!  Both lengthened Visentini's should be available for 2021 in any case.  

Some still think the lengthened E-Flexer's will end up at Dublin (which is being redeveloped) but my money is still on Gdynia with the lengthened Visentini's filling in until their arrival.    Following that, Urd and Stena Gothica aren't getting any younger and the Ventspils route (currently using two Visentini's) could do with larger tonnage too I believe.  That would free up Stena Flavia and allow Scottish Viking to be handed back to whichever Visentini associated company owns her (can't recall of the top of my head), or alternatively, the replacement of Urd and Gothica.  All speculation of course and assuming that Stena RoRo don't get an offer from elsewhere that is too good to turn down!

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I'm 100% certain she was always going to be a passenger ship developed under the project name of 'Bretagne 2' (think they used the same code for the Pont-Aven as well) and was from the start was based on Cotentin, IIRC they said identical to Deck 5. I even have the original profile view from the order announcement somewhere where she looked a lot uglier.

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12 hours ago, tarbyonline said:

We'll see.  A lot will depend on what Stena want to do fleet wise over the next few years.  "Baltica" could be quite useful elsewhere, perhaps even slotting into a Nordica-like relief ship role?  It wouldn't be the first time Stena sold a ship prior to replacement tonnage arriving and had to use something as a stop-gap!  Both lengthened Visentini's should be available for 2021 in any case.  

Some still think the lengthened E-Flexer's will end up at Dublin (which is being redeveloped) but my money is still on Gdynia with the lengthened Visentini's filling in until their arrival.    Following that, Urd and Stena Gothica aren't getting any younger and the Ventspils route (currently using two Visentini's) could do with larger tonnage too I believe.  That would free up Stena Flavia and allow Scottish Viking to be handed back to whichever Visentini associated company owns her (can't recall of the top of my head), or alternatively, the replacement of Urd and Gothica.  All speculation of course and assuming that Stena RoRo don't get an offer from elsewhere that is too good to turn down!

Regarding Scottish Viking, I believe Watling St want to sell her.

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4 hours ago, Khaines said:

Anyone got that book on Armorique - any info in there about her origins.  I have it deep in a cupboard somewhere, will dig it out.

What do you wish to know Brigitte as I can even let you know who made the Engine driven alternators?

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7 hours ago, jonno said:

Regarding Scottish Viking, I believe Watling St want to sell her.

They already did a fair few years ago!  She's currently owned by Visemar AFAIK.  

Watling Street was a subsidiary of EPIC shipping who had severe financial difficulties resulting in the Ro-Pax's being sold off.  My memory is a bit blurry as this all happened the best part of 10 years ago,  but IIRC Visentini (Visemar) took EPIC to court over Scottish Viking as they defaulted on an agreement to purchase her outright.  It turned out the reason was because they were broke and eventually their ships were sold off.  Stena Flavia, Stena Lagan/Mersey, Etretat are all ex EPIC Shipping controlled vessels.  As they paid all the instalments for Scottish Viking she returned to Visentini.

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1 hour ago, tarbyonline said:

They already did a fair few years ago!  She's currently owned by Visemar AFAIK.  

Watling Street was a subsidiary of EPIC shipping who had severe financial difficulties resulting in the Ro-Pax's being sold off.  My memory is a bit blurry as this all happened the best part of 10 years ago,  but IIRC Visentini (Visemar) took EPIC to court over Scottish Viking as they defaulted on an agreement to purchase her outright.  It turned out the reason was because they were broke and eventually their ships were sold off.  Stena Flavia, Stena Lagan/Mersey, Etretat are all ex EPIC Shipping controlled vessels.  As they paid all the instalments for Scottish Viking she returned to Visentini.

Should say "hadn't paid all the instalments" of course

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  • 6 months later...

Sorry to bring out this topic, but I asked a question on this thread https://bfenthusiasts.com/bfe/topic/13243-after-lockdown-the-new-normal/page/9/?tab=comments#comment -213325 who seemed to annoy neilcvx.

To avoid the off topic, I ask the question again here. Not having followed more information with you about the future use of BARFLEUR? I always thought of a possible service from Newhaven. It seems to me that BARFLEUR is perfectly "suited" to this type of route and the ship is barely longer than the COTE D'ALBATRE. Could BF compete with Transmanche-Ferries (DFDS) in Newhaven from Le Havre or even serve Dieppe?

 

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11 minutes ago, LHCity said:

Sorry to bring out this topic, but I asked a question on this thread https://bfenthusiasts.com/bfe/topic/13243-after-lockdown-the-new-normal/page/9/?tab=comments#comment -213325 who seemed to annoy neilcvx.

To avoid the off topic, I ask the question again here. Not having followed more information with you about the future use of BARFLEUR? I always thought of a possible service from Newhaven. It seems to me that BARFLEUR is perfectly "suited" to this type of route and the ship is barely longer than the COTE D'ALBATRE. Could BF compete with Transmanche-Ferries (DFDS) in Newhaven from Le Havre or even serve Dieppe?

 

Barfleur is almost certainly too long to operate from Newhaven.

Going head to head with DFDS/Transmanche would be commercial suicide.

Why would they want to open a Le Havre-Newhaven route which proved itself a failure before.

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17 minutes ago, hhvferry said:

Barfleur is almost certainly too long to operate from Newhaven.

Going head to head with DFDS/Transmanche would be commercial suicide.

Why would they want to open a Le Havre-Newhaven route which proved itself a failure before.

This is the method used by BF in Le Havre to drive out DFDS. This is why I ask myself the question

I don't remember the Le Havre / Newhaven line?

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45 minutes ago, hhvferry said:

It was not a success.

image.thumb.png.f2e5cbf4e7e4dc72a5626441550ce291.png

I do not remember, however I regularly used the Le Havre / Portsmouth line to go to London. I must say that if I had known that Le Havre / Newhaven existed, I would have taken it for the train connection facilities. They should not have promoted it in France.

LD Lines was not very well known at the time on the English Channel and Arrival at midnight in Newhaven, no wonder it was a Failure !

BARFLEUR is only 15 meters longer than COTE D'ALBATRE ... This is an idea, because BARFLEUR is designed more for short and daytime lines. Le Havre / Newhaven is almost equivalent to a Cherbourg / Poole in distance.

Barfleur should operate a night crossing Le Havre> Newhaven when Normandie provide a night crossing Portsmouth> Le Havre

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I understood that the length issue was crucial in order to turn across the width available in the harbour?

Whilst I admire your attachment to Le Havre and your strong advocacy of increased ferry services using the port, you may want to just ease off a little as people have answered you, but you keep plugging away? Your posts are often much appreciated with your local knowledge, and I would be happy to find excuses to visit super friends in Le Havre, but ....

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3 minutes ago, colin said:

I understood that the length issue was crucial in order to turn across the width available in the harbour?

Whilst I admire your attachment to Le Havre and your strong advocacy of increased ferry services using the port, you may want to just ease off a little as people have answered you, but you keep plugging away? Your posts are often much appreciated with your local knowledge, and I would be happy to find excuses to visit super friends in Le Havre, but ....

I thought it was a forum for the exchange of ideas I don't pretend to know the truth, but for the moment nobody knows where Barfleur is going

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If BF want to enter the Newhaven - Dieppe market why not just wait for the contact between DFDS and Syndicat Mixte de Promotion de L'Activité Transmanche to come up for renewal and bid.  You get a monopoly o route and two ships thrown in.

 

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  • Andy changed the title to Cotentin - Returning to Brittany Ferries in 2021

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