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The Ferry Man

Ship speed limits proposed...

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They are taking about a 20% cut in speeds which will have a much greater impact on noise levels and emmisions. It would not make a massive difference on the Dover-Calais shuttle but any route currently based on getting ships back to their starting point every 24/36/48-hours etc would experience real problems.

Ed. 

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Anything to cut out that awful drag of boarding late evening and "enjoying " an hour or two of cruising the coast of Cornwall before Armorique setts of to Roscoff. I presume this is due to staffing at Roscoff early morning.

Stu

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18 minutes ago, straightfeed said:

Anything to cut out that awful drag of boarding late evening and "enjoying " an hour or two of cruising the coast of Cornwall before Armorique setts of to Roscoff. I presume this is due to staffing at Roscoff early morning.

Stu

If Armorique left Plymouth as usual at 10 pm. and went straight across she could easily be in Roscoff and unloading at 4 am - just don't count on me booking .

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1 hour ago, Cabin-boy said:

They are taking about a 20% cut in speeds which will have a much greater impact on noise levels and emmisions. It would not make a massive difference on the Dover-Calais shuttle but any route currently based on getting ships back to their starting point every 24/36/48-hours etc would experience real problems.

Ed. 

I'd have thought it might even on Do-Ca - it wouldn't add much to each sailing but probably enough to knock a rotation per-ship off the schedule each day. On the flip side, where you have things like the St Malo sailings that are just overnight in each direction (or the regularly scheduled routes where a ship lays over most of the day) it would be achievable to add an extra couple of hours on. not withstanding any affect on freight haulier timings. 

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5 minutes ago, Jim said:

I'd have thought it might even on Do-Ca - it wouldn't add much to each sailing but probably enough to knock a rotation per-ship off the schedule each day. On the flip side, where you have things like the St Malo sailings that are just overnight in each direction (or the regularly scheduled routes where a ship lays over most of the day) it would be achievable to add an extra couple of hours on. not withstanding any affect on freight haulier timings. 

Yes,  Portsmouth to St Malo is an exception with no real pressure in terms of timings. It's relatively unusual although it could be argued that BF have the same situation at Poole-Cherbourg and Portsmouth-Le Havre. Most night crossings wood benefit from the increase but on day crossings it might drive more traffic to the tunnel. If Dover-calais lost a sailing it would probably be offset by fuel savings and increased onboard spend over the course of the two hours at sea. Ed. 

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4 hours ago, The Ferry Man said:

BBC News - Climate change: Speed limits for ships can have 'massive' benefits
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50348321

 

Could be interesting to see what happens if applied to pax ships...

That bugs me, because I would say the biggest single drawback of travelling by sea (both people and freight) is the speed.
The difference between the slowest and fastest traditional passenger vessel is pretty small too. At most about 20knots
Surely purposely slowing ships down over their natural limitations is counter productive for the industry. Surely other ways and greener initiatives are more preferable....

ie. The many fixed-sail designs we are seeing, LNG and beyond, and that god damned awful thing they stuck on the top of Viking Grace! 

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12 minutes ago, hf_uk said:

Surely other ways and greener initiatives are more preferable....

Not until fleets are replaced by new ships. 

 

3 minutes ago, The Ferry Man said:

Not much scope for this in the timetable

The only option is either running 2.5 crossings per day and resetting the timetable on a Friday evening ex-Portsmouth or running every third trip to Cherbourg instead to save time. It makes P&O's double-ender seem more logical as 10/15 minutes saved turning at each end could help offset the extra saiing time. Ed. 

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Would be a disaster for passenger ferries. As far as Channel Islands are concerned a decrease in ship speeds would only drive even more people to the airlines. Already airlines have around 80 per cent market share on UK routes.

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Just now, Nick Hyde said:

Would be a disaster for passenger ferries. As far as Channel Islands are concerned a decrease in ship speeds would only drive even more people to the airlines. Already airlines have around 80 per cent market share on UK routes.

Plus the fast ferries are considerably less comfortable at lower speeds and wallow more in the swells. Ed. 

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Isn't this a bit old hat? Slow steaming has been common for years for commercial reasons and many new ships are actually designed to facilitate slow steaming for exactly that reason.

Furthermore, as pointed out in the report, it's not the speed that controls the emissions but the power used. Back in ye oldene days many passenger liners were built as 20/20s. About 20,000 gross tons and 20 knots service speed as this was the best balance between economy and gettng to where you were headed. Service speeds for most ships today still hover around 20-22 knots even though faster speeds are possible. Warships have economical cruising speeds, sometimes using separate engines that may be 15 knots or so althougn capable of 25+. Cruise liners commonly amble from port to port at very slow speeds sometimes, depending on the distance between them. QM2 Atlantic crossings are now quite leisurely affairs at 6-7 days even though the ship can get across in 4. The gas turbines near the funnel are now only rarely used I'm told.

Fast catamaran ferries have become less common due to the cost of fuels, no more HSS.

There would also need to be exemptions, UK to France ferries are essentially crossing an intensively used marine motorway at right angles. Not a good place to dawdle.

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2 hours ago, Cabin-boy said:

Not until fleets are replaced by new ships. 

 

Well BF are going a good way at doing that so far, to be fair, and they are not exactly a large company with plenty of ready cash. Would be nice to see other operators all round the world getting on-board too really!

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Many of the long distance ferry routes out of UK maximise crossing times to prevent awkward boarding/disembarkation times and to boost on-board sales.

Examples include:

Newcastle - Ijmuiden. Crossing time 15 hours - could be done in 11.

Harwich - Hook of Holland: 7/8 hours - is done in around 5/6 and the vessel docks earlier and allows hauliers off.

Plymouth - Roscoff - 6/7/8 hours but can be done in 4.5.

Le-Havre (overnight) 8 hours but can be done in 4.5.

 

Portsmouth - Caen is one of the few that does'nt follow this principle, and its desperately late departure and eye-watering early arrival puts many travellers, including myself, off.

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Portsmouth -Caen is not as bad as it used to be, from memory the Duc de Normandie was rostered to leave Portsmouth at 23h15 to arrive in Ouistreham at 06h30, not nice but we all took it for granted.

But still not as bad as the Stena Normandy from Southampton, high season departure was 23h59 arriving at 06h00 the following morning so wake up time was 04h00 British time - yuk!

And they charged full whack for cabins too....:o

Chris

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